canadian Health Care, Even With Queues, Bests U.S.

[Casull]

number of uninsured i hear ranges from 90 to 120 million

Must be listening to NPR.   

why is it audacious to say something thats opinion from my perspective but not yours

Because you had the nerve to chastise someone else for giving his "opinion" and you were doing the same damn thing.  Or don't you understand the irony of that?   

[mechanic]

I know of an incident where here in America, an injured motorcyclist was brought to ER critical.  No ID.  It took 3 days to trace the stolen bike to it's owner who was not it's rider.  The rider got the best neurosurgeon available.  He pulled through.  Then he went to jail, where he got excellent medical care as well.  Was he uninsured?  You betcha'.   Do they count prisoners as uninsured?  I wonder.  If the thug had not wrecked the bike, and had maybe robbed a liquor store of a lot of cash, would he have used part of it to buy insurance?    I'm tired of all the hype and smoke and mirrors thrown our way.  No matter how many people are uninsured, once they are insured those of us who must work will pay the bill.  And thats a fact.

[Dixie Dude]

I read the news yesterday and it said that 85% of the uninsured in America makes over $50,000 a year.  That only leaves 5 million uninsured.  Make it mandatory you must have insurance if you make over $50,000.  Then maybe have the governmnent cover the rest based on income.  Government gives a voucher or tax credit based on income for those under $50,000.  Then have tort reform and allow competition to buy out of state just like car or homeowners insurance.  Prices should then come down and everyone is covered.  Not government take over.  Simple solutions. Incrementally, not massive and costly. 

[Cabin4]

number of uninsured i hear ranges from 90 to 120 million.

Even the liar Obama says its 47 million. And that includes 20 or so million illegal aliens who should be deported out on their arse. There's a another 10 million or so who have the option of participating in an employer sponsored program but choose not to save a few bucks. There's another few million that are off a policy during job changes.

The bottom line is this is really a red herring. The only reform we need is portability, tort reform, no-drop policy and the ability for insurance companies to sell across state lines. I live in California and there are only 4 private companies that can participate in selling here. There are 1500 available in the USA! The government has bottle necked the health care industry and prevented competition. On the posative side, California has instituted medical tort reform and our private health care insurance is less than most all other states.

[BBF]

About the deal where other countries don't complain as much on HC...they don't complain too much about not being able to shove a handgun down their pants and go to the store either, nor do they complain much about the high taxes. 


Jim

I'll leave the part of shoving a handgun down their pants alone other then I doubt it is an issue in many other countries. The high taxes are another matter. There is plenty of "bitchin" going on especially if they money gets wasted.

[BBF]

If Canadian health care is so good, how come all of them die eventually?

As I wrote before, there is room for improvement

[BBF]

t......... but if you are a 16 yr old mother to be, you can't get an ultrasound at all, cept if you got rich parents.......

 
If she is old enough to have a brat she should be old enough to pay or find the sperm donor to foot the bill.

[beerbelly]

                           Hell half of them don't have a clue which  sperm donor it might have been.
                                   Beerbelly

[Cabin4]

number of uninsured i hear ranges from 90 to 120 million.

Even the liar Obama says its 47 million. And that includes 20 or so million illegal aliens who should be deported out on their arse. There's a another 10 million or so who have the option of participating in an employer sponsored program but choose not to save a few bucks. There's another few million that are off a policy during job changes.

The bottom line is this is really a red herring. The only reform we need is portability, tort reform, no-drop policy and the ability for insurance companies to sell across state lines. I live in California and there are only 4 private companies that can participate in selling here. There are 1500 available in the USA! The government has bottle necked the health care industry and prevented competition. On the posative side, California has instituted medical tort reform and our private health care insurance is less than most all other states.

.
The following list of links basically says all polls from whosoever report that 50-79% Americans want very serious HC reform. Likewise, uninsured is generally construed to be around 50+ million Americans:

http://www.bing.com/search?q=Healthcare+Reform+%2B+Polls&FORM=MSNH11&qs=n

So I don't know where you get your data; maybe you are only counting so-called conservatives in your polls..
In this report/poll from your home state the poll claims 71% of Californians want serious HC reform:

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/06/18/BAMJ188G1P.DTL

So go figure who's lying..

...TM7

I refuse to consider illegal aliens in the number. They are not Americans and do not deserve consideration in this debate. 71% of Kalifornians are likely illegal, so thats your answer there as well. Kalifornia has some of the lowest health care premiums in the nation and some of the best quaility. So why would anyone covered feel the need for massive reform??? As I said, they likly are illegals who don't have a policy and don't deserve one.

The real number is some where between 15 to 20 million. that means that 280 to 285 million have a policy. Are there some who have a policy and don't like it, sure. Are there people whop don't have a policy and want one, of course. So leave me and the significant majority of Americans of of this BS. I feel no need to pay more so I can get less so that 20 million illegals can get insurance.

[jimster]

I don't believe any number coming from government, or those who represent government, or those who have an agenda with any political party. 
what do any of them know about real numbers.  They miscalulated the debt by 2 trillion.  So much for their made up numbers. 
They want us to think it's a real emergency like the pork package.  People are dying in the street as we speak, have to pass legislation nobody is allowed to read now.  Faster the better..(before someone reads it). 

Yes...most all American citizens want some reform.  No we don't want their legislation.  Had enough of their lies.
Now nobody gets to read it either...and for good reason I bet.  It's time to shut them down any way we can.

2010...tie their hands with voting, 2012, tie them up some more.  Would rather see them all bickering and not passing anything than to see one more lousy piece of their corrupt legislation. 

You will never know the real numbers of anything listening to anyone connected with the government or that has an agenda, or attached to one of the parties.  You can figure it out the numbers and get closer on your own.  Your a whole lot smarter than they are.   I personally think they were more than 2 trillion off myself...the Federal Reserve misplaced that much. 

[mechanic]

TM7.  I too want health care reform.  I want the government out of it altogether, and let the market place work.  When I was a young man, I bought insurance on my family for $35.00 a week.  My wife also covered us on a group plan at her work.  When I had surgery, I got money back!

Obama says there are billions upon billions of dollars wasted in Medicare.  Who runs medicare?   Do we really want them to run all of it?

What I want is for the government to do it's assigned task, and get out of everyone's life.  The biggest problem today is medicare, medicaid and government regulation.  Before these programs, healthcare was reasonable.

[Dixie Dude]

Medicare raided the social security.  Medicare does however allow you to have supplemental insurance.  The current bill does not if you are on the government plan.  Like I said, tort reform, allow you to buy insurance across state lines, make it mandatory you have to buy insurance, then the 85% who make over $50,000 would have to buy it.  Then have graduated vouchers for those under $50,000 based on income to help pay for their insurance.  Everyone covered, no massive inefficient bureaucratic government program. 

[Cabin4]

TM7,

The polls all over the country also say the people do not want HC reform like Obama wants it. So let's not get hung up on polls too much. Obama himself said the number was 47million and this is the number the liberals are using. The things that make business sense for HC reform are:

1. Improve competition: Allow providers to sell across state lines. More competition means lower price & higher quality over the long term.
2. No dropping. If the law allows dropping put a stop to it. You buy a policy and pay into it you should get the coverage for as long as you pay for it. Period.
3. Portability: If you move from one employer to the next, you should be able to keep the policy you have if you so choose.
4. Tort: This represents a 10% cost factor in our country. Tort reform WILL lower the cost to everyone. Look at California. They instituted tort reform and it has paid off. We have some of the lowest health care policy costs in the country with highest quality.
5. Tax credits for low income earners: Give them a tax credit for buying a policy. It would at least give them an opportunity to get a emergency policy so they won't have to fear paying medical bills for the rest of their lives.

This will do more to reform our system and bring real & meaningful structural change to this sector of our economy. Item 1 alone will do more over the long term.

[BBF]

                           Hell half of them don't have a clue which  sperm donor it might have been.
                                   Beerbelly

Right on, I just didn't want to write that.

[Cabin4]

If the election was the poll, then why do the majority of americans not like obama's HC reform proposal?

[nomosendero]

If the election was the poll, then why do the majority of americans not like obama's HC reform proposal?

.
If that is true, and I'm not sure it is; it is because the HC reform and variants, especially Baucus's monster, is not what Obama campaigned on...which was simply in essence a " a single payer insurance plan available to Americans who want or need it."  Obama's naive mistake was thinking that GOPers and DNCers actually care about the people that they are elected to represent...clearly, they represent small elite plutocratic groups owing and running the HC industry. If Congress actually cared and wanted the American people to have inexpensive, good, reliable, fear-freeing HC you would have it. Instead, HC is wholey used as a tool of mass control...a form-tool of oppression if you will...that is exactly what it amounts to. It is amazing that a people cultured to believe in freedom, democracy, equality and other high ideals are hoodwinked to settle for this kind of system, usually be catching them in a net of diadactics...you know, socialism vs capitalism, private sector vs government bureacracy, etc....that kind of thing.  Fortunately, other countries have broken the code on this kind of thing and have actually tried to help their citizens, except they are under attack by the same forces once again.

..TM7

"Obama's naive mistake was thinking that GOPers and Dncers actually care about the people that they are elected to represent" WOW & WOW What an unbelieveable statement!!!!!!!! You would not say that unless you thought Obama was pushing this because he thinks it will a.  actually help people instead of doing this for power & Gov. control & b. he did not know anything about the mindset of Congress even though he was in it & c. thinking the single payer plan is good.

We all know that you have been an Obama apologist since Nov, but this is amazing stuff!!!

I don't think he is the one being naive here. 

[MGMorden]

If the election was the poll, then why do the majority of americans not like obama's HC reform proposal?

Obama is straddling the fence on this one (and from what I've been hearing is ticking off a lot of people on both sides of the spectrum).  His plan is pretty much half-arsed and essentially has enough government involvement to tick off the Republicans, but not nearly enough to satisfy the Democrats.  End result: both sides hate it.

[jimster]

Obama will sign anything that is put in front of him, period...he won't read it or care what's in it.  To him, a signature on something that says HC is everything.  It's a legacy of some kind.

That should tell you a lot about Obama right there.  Stimulus package was no different to him, he did not know what was in there either except the important things he wanted...like billions to ACORN and things like that.  He didn't care what else was in there.  That package was on his desk when he was a Senator....some of this legislation has been laying around for a very long time.  HC is the same.  In the end....if the title of the bill says XXX...it's all good to him.   This rookie socialist is going to do a lot of damage before he gets tossed to the street. 

[SHOOTALL]

this HC is control plain and simple . While we worry about the guns and ammo they take over the medical and food .  If they control both and cut off either and they win hands down . Not my idea it was done in Russia many years ago and worked well . The north did it to cities in the war of northern agression . and the list goes on . Look at Cuba , we tried it with them .