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Offline jb-mck

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New to Cannons
« on: October 20, 2009, 03:56:17 PM »
Greetings all!  I discovered this site while searching for cannon designs. I am a machinist who wants to build a small cannon as a conversation piece, but I also want it to function (make noise and smoke!).  The material I have available is 360 Naval brass, 2" diameter.  I'm think the cannon should be in the 12" range given the maximum diameter.  I found the drawings for a SAMCC cannon on the main page of this site, and it looks like it is very close to what I want to build.  If anyone out there can advise me on how to proceed or direct me to some education information it would be appreciated. 

OT- This is a very nice site and very entertaining!  It looks like you guys have a lot of fun.

Thanks.
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Offline subdjoe

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Re: New to Cannons
« Reply #1 on: October 20, 2009, 04:15:36 PM »
Welcome!  I do have a warning. These things can be addictive.  You will find yourself acquiring more and more of them.  Finding excuses to shoot them.  Trying to get your friends to get some, not like yours, so you will have more variety to play with.  Don't say you weren't warned.
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Your ob't & etc,
Joseph Lovell

Justice Robert H. Jackson - It is not the function of the government to keep the citizen from falling into error; it is the function of the citizen to keep the government from falling into error.

Offline jb-mck

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Re: New to Cannons
« Reply #2 on: October 20, 2009, 04:21:30 PM »
Thanks for the warning!  That's exactly how I got into machining!  I guess everybody needs a hobby, or three!
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Offline GGaskill

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Re: New to Cannons
« Reply #3 on: October 20, 2009, 05:24:07 PM »
Probably want to limit the bore diameter of a 2" piece to about 5/8".  And then you have the issue of attaching the trunnions.  Beyond that, it is pretty much a simple machining project.
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Offline RocklockI

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Re: New to Cannons
« Reply #4 on: October 20, 2009, 05:39:53 PM »
jb-mck , Welcome to the board .

Come on in ...the water is fine !  :D  ..... "Oh No ! ....one little cannon wont hurt ....it wont hook you !"

you can always kick that habit later , wink  ;)wink  ;)....nudge ,nudge  ;D ;) . say no more ! ;D

rocklock , Gary

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"I've seen too much not to stay in touch , With a world full of love and luck, I got a big suspicion 'bout ammunition I never forget to duck" J.B.

Offline BoomLover

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Re: New to Cannons
« Reply #5 on: October 20, 2009, 07:35:02 PM »
Welcome to the forum! Lots of good info, and lots of good guys in these pages! These things do become addicting, one leads to several, which leads to many, ect, ect BoomLover
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Offline Ex 49'er

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Re: New to Cannons
« Reply #6 on: October 20, 2009, 08:15:52 PM »
You might want to consider buying stock in a black powder company. I started with a beercan mortar, then a GB mortar, then a 1 1/4 swivel gun, then a 1" Napoleon and finally am having one of the sponsors of this forum build me one his creations. This stuff is addicting. Forewarned is forearmed. You will be assimilated.

Welcome to the club!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Offline brokenpole

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Re: New to Cannons
« Reply #7 on: October 21, 2009, 05:33:09 AM »
Quote from: Ex 49'er on October 20, 2009, 08:15:52 PM
You might want to consider buying stock in a black powder company. I started with a beercan mortar, then a GB mortar, then a 1 1/4 swivel gun, then a 1" Napoleon and finally am having one of the sponsors of this forum build me one his creations. This stuff is addicting. Forewarned is forearmed. You will be assimilated.

Welcome to the club!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ex-49'er...you forgot the rest of the phrase...resistance is futile  ;)
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Offline Ex 49'er

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Re: New to Cannons
« Reply #8 on: October 21, 2009, 05:54:22 AM »
Quote from: brokenpole on October 21, 2009, 05:33:09 AM
Quote from: Ex 49'er on October 20, 2009, 08:15:52 PM
You will be assimilated.

Ex-49'er...you forgot the rest of the phrase...resistance is futile  ;)

Yep, I'm getting older and I suffer from CRS. I think I'll have to pass the torch on that phrase. Thanks for catching that slip of the memory.
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Offline jb-mck

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Re: New to Cannons
« Reply #9 on: October 21, 2009, 11:44:52 AM »
At the risk of exposing how inept I am with cannons (or muzzle loaders), I need to go over my game plan.  My 1st question....is 360 brass strong enough for a small cannon with a .600 inch bore.  Assuming it is, I was planning on using about an 1/8 inch diameter fuse for ignition.  I would use standard black powder such as that used in muzzle loaders.  I think you can get some pre-measured pellets, can you not?  I plan on holding the minimum thickness to 1/2 inch anywhere along the axis of the cannon.  I plan on press fitting the trunnions in place.

All that being said, will this plan get me where I need to be?  The actual machining will be the easy part!
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Offline RocklockI

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Re: New to Cannons
« Reply #10 on: October 21, 2009, 03:14:00 PM »
I know nothing of '360' brass .
1/8 " fuse  , no problem there  .
As far as i know ,"standard Black Powder" does not come in pellets . Those are most likley BP substatutes .

They are not 'standard black powder' at all .

JMHO gary
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Offline Double D

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Re: New to Cannons
« Reply #11 on: October 21, 2009, 04:48:56 PM »
Quote from: jb-mck on October 21, 2009, 11:44:52 AM
At the risk of exposing how inept I am with cannons (or muzzle loaders), I need to go over my game plan.  My 1st question....is 360 brass strong enough for a small cannon with a .600 inch bore.  Assuming it is, I was planning on using about an 1/8 inch diameter fuse for ignition.  I would use standard black powder such as that used in muzzle loaders.  I think you can get some pre-measured pellets, can you not?  I plan on holding the minimum thickness to 1/2 inch anywhere along the axis of the cannon.  I plan on press fitting the trunnions in place.

All that being said, will this plan get me where I need to be?  The actual machining will be the easy part!

You are inept or stupid, only if you don't ask the question.

Can't answer your question about 360 brass, some one else will.   A .600 bore will require minumum 1.8 diameter over the chamber area to meet saftey recommendations.

Pellets are black powder substitues and don'r have a good reputation in cannons.

Press fit, screw and solder or braze.  Press fit may not be strong enough for lateral stress.
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Offline GGaskill

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Re: New to Cannons
« Reply #12 on: October 21, 2009, 05:49:25 PM »
I would question a press fit without some additional retention as the recoil forces will tend to pull the rear edge of the trunnions out of the pockets.  Some kind of silver bearing solder would be the best if you cannot weld the material.  Welding is best.  It all depends on how much heat you can supply and how much the metal can take.  You don't want to anneal the brass if it is already hardened.

360 (C36000) is not the best copper alloy for cannon barrels but it would be OK if not bored too large and if used with reasonable loads.  It doesn't weld well according to copper.org.
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Offline jb-mck

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Re: New to Cannons
« Reply #13 on: October 22, 2009, 02:21:37 AM »
Thank you for the input.  I think perhaps I should find a better grade of brass to use for this project, with a larger diameter.  You guys have saved me some time and grief!
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Offline Double D

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Re: New to Cannons
« Reply #14 on: October 22, 2009, 04:45:03 AM »
If I were advising you, and I guess I am, I would avise for a first cannon get a piece of 1018 steel for your first gun.  Learn the basics of cannon construction and shooting safety then move on to a bronze barrel.
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Offline jb-mck

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Re: New to Cannons
« Reply #15 on: October 22, 2009, 03:17:32 PM »
Sounds reasonable.  1018 is much cheaper anyway.  Maybe I make a steam whistle out of the brass instead! Let me secure the steel, then I can start on the canon if a few weeks.  So many projects, so little time!
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Offline RocklockI

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Re: New to Cannons
« Reply #16 on: October 22, 2009, 04:01:00 PM »
jb-mck ....i suspect you know that you have already swallowed the hook and so far it tastes good . it probably isnt 'set' yet ,but your time is short . spit it now or ...... :o yep ! it's 'the frying pan for you !' ;D

In all seriousness I think you are making a wise choice ! steel is much stronger . I would even suggest you buy your first one brass or steel ,so that you know what a correctly made cannon should be ....from a sponser of course   ;D you will not get a better deal on a cannon anywhere .

As a prudent man you'll be fine .

but the line is getting tight ......you know the hook is coming  ;) ...The good news is this hobby fishes with VERY SHARP HOOKS ! you'll never even feel it ........by the time you know what happened ....well your in the pan and 'done on one side' ........so theres that ! ;D ;D ;D

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"I've seen too much not to stay in touch , With a world full of love and luck, I got a big suspicion 'bout ammunition I never forget to duck" J.B.

Offline carronader

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Re: New to Cannons
« Reply #17 on: October 22, 2009, 09:29:26 PM »
And the beauty of it is...........you get to choose your own weapon..........see attached.
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