Author Topic: .50 RB fer Deer? (Update added) (Read 1683 times)

Cuts Crooked · « **on:** October 06, 2009, 01:13:27 PM »

I have a "Match Queen", meaning it has only been used fer matches for years, in .50 with a 1-66 twist. This gun is one I built frum scratch about 12 years ago. It's a flinter with a 42" barrel. With 45 gr of 2f Goex it's a tack driver and has won it's share of ribbons.

Now I'm thinking of using it fer filling the freezer this year instead of using my ^#L^#@ ((we caint use that word here

) I've hunted deer with a .45 using RBs and 75 gr of 3F, but I've kept my shots closer to what I'd call archery range, with lots of successes. I've used .50s fer deer a lot, with conicals, and I've shot a lot of deer with my .54 with RBs....but somehow I've never gotten around to trying .50 loaded with RBs fer makin meat.

I tried some REALs and some Mini Balls in this gun recently and it won't shoot them fer sour apples!!! It appears to be strictly a RB shooter. So my quesiton is..waddaya thik of 85 gr of 2F pushing a .490 RB out to 75 or 80 yards fer deer hunting? This load gives me the best accuracy of the heavier loads I've tried in it, not as good as my match load, but it will keep them right at three inches at 100 yards off the bench. I know it will kill, but is it going to problamatic fer penetration at longer ranges? Would like to hear from those who have hunted with .50 RB guns and can share their experiances.

Swampman · « **Reply #1 on:** October 06, 2009, 01:17:46 PM »

It will be plenty. I wouldn't even consider using a conical in a traditional gun.

necchi · « **Reply #2 on:** October 06, 2009, 03:06:57 PM »

That load combination will be just fine,,it might just put a ball all the way through a deer at 100.

p.s. that is a desired affect of terminal ballistics

Yankee1 · « **Reply #3 on:** October 06, 2009, 04:11:51 PM »

My one in 66 bbl. shoots RB using 90 black powder. The accuracy is dependent on me seating the ball with a short starter I made from 3/8"
brass pipe nipple. I cut the edge on the lathe so it fits the ball perfectly and only contacts the ball on the edge next to the patch.
With the center of the ball starter being hollow it does not distend the shape of the ball when I push down to seat it. In my rifle it makes a big difference. My set trigger helps too.
Yankee1

Swampman · « **Reply #4 on:** October 06, 2009, 11:54:20 PM »

Distorting the ball won't hurt anything. With the right patch and ball combo you won't need a short starter. Our forefathers didn't use them.

JBlk · « **Reply #5 on:** October 07, 2009, 02:07:46 AM »

I have taken many whitetails with seventy grains BP and a roundball with 1 in 66.The ball must be good soft lead or you will end up tracking them to the deepest ditch around where they will expire.I believe that the round ball will drop a whitetail quicker than a shotgun slug.Many of the deer that I have shot have either dropped in their tracks or would be going down as they turned to flee.

beaverman · « **Reply #6 on:** October 07, 2009, 06:10:16 AM »

with that load and distance, it would be fine for Elk, most of the guys I hunt with have taken Elk with 50 prb, no problem, its all about shot placement!

Cuts Crooked · « **Reply #7 on:** October 07, 2009, 11:24:11 AM »

Thanx to all fer the input. As noted. I know the RB will kill, and very effectively at that, but I wasn't certain of performance at ranges out to 80 yards. Having used RBs in .45, I know that I needed to keep the ranges short wiht that caliber but, lacking experiance with the 50 RBs, I wasn't ready to put it to the test on a noble game animal based on "what I think"!

Quote from: Swampman on October 06, 2009, 11:54:20 PM

Distorting the ball won't hurt anything. With the right patch and ball combo you won't need a short starter. Our forefathers didn't use them.

Very True Swampman! A properly fitted patch & ball combination shouldn't need to be hammered down bore, unless the bore is seriously fouled!

Wynn · « **Reply #8 on:** October 07, 2009, 04:46:52 PM »

The last 6 deer I harvested have been with a .50 RB using 75 gr of fffg. (1 in 60 twist) Half were at 40-60 yds and were pass throughs on heart/lung shots. The other 3 were at 80-90 yds and the ball on all 3 were just under the hide, having expended all energy on the vitals. All these deer were shot from the same stand so I had no difficulty waiting for perfect shot placement. Expansion on the recovered home cast, pure lead balls was at .82-.85

coyotejoe · « **Reply #9 on:** October 08, 2009, 05:46:22 AM »

I once shot a large doe with my wife's little 24" barreled carbine using only 50 grains of 3f under the patched .490 ball. She likes that load for its' low recoil. I took a frontal shot at about 50-60 yards and hit her in the V of the breast. She stood stock still for a couple of seconds then toppled over sideways, stiff legged like a lawn ornament. I recovered the ball from a ham and it looked like it could have been used again. You don't need magnum loads if you just place the shot properly.

Forestclimber · « **Reply #10 on:** October 08, 2009, 01:35:54 PM »

Do it.

simonkenton · « **Reply #11 on:** October 09, 2009, 03:55:09 AM »

I have killed over a dozen deer and wild hogs with the .50 patched round ball.
Max range 80 yards, 80 grains of ffg Goex.
I have killed way over 50 deer with the 30-06, and the round ball is a better deer killer any day of the week.
Hit him in the lungs with the round ball and he won't get 50 yards.

In all cases I made lung shots with the prb, all were pass-through.
Dammit, I wanted to examine one of my round balls that killed the deer, but no such luck.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #12 on:** October 09, 2009, 06:16:49 AM »

I've only killed three deer with a .50 cal PRB, my load was 95gr 3F goex with a .498" ball which was extremely accurate, only recovered one ball, the 3-point Blacktail(6pt eastern) was trotting behind 6 does all in a line right in front of me not 25yds away, I was carrying my flinter, held on his chest a little further ahead than I normally would for a broadside standing shot just in case I stopped my swing as I pulled the trigger, didn't want to hit him too far back, the ball went thru and thru and lodge in the knee on the opposite side, he stumbled, but kept going leaving a blood trail a blind man could follow, he turned and went downhill about 50-60yds and piled up, by the time I reloaded and got down to him he was still. Ball was about ¾" in diameter, the exit hole was about the same size.

The other two I shot with the same load, one was about 90yds broadside not too far from where the 3-pt was killed, he did just about the same thing, turned and went downhill about 50yds and was dead when I got to him. The other one was a 4-pt bench leg (muley blacktail cross) at about 50yds, I was hunting a 5yr old clear cut, he and several other deer jumped up almost under my feet, they went one way, he went another, I did the baaa sound I use to stop deer, he stopped and looked back my way looking over his shoulder as he was standing quartered away, I put a ball thru his shoulder missing bone except for ribs, it apparently was close enough to the spine that it stunned him and he couldn't get back up immediately, but he was trying to get his front legs under him, I reloaded and shot him in the head behind the ear to put him down.

Tim

Yankee1 · « **Reply #13 on:** October 12, 2009, 11:17:44 AM »

Hello Swampman
I feel required to answer your post. I have done many tests and have found that when the ball is distended it flies wide.
Yes I use the correct patch thickness. If you want mediocre accuracy I guess you would not care if the ball was round or not.
If you want maximum accuracy I would urge you to be very careful when seating the patch and ball into the rifling. The ball starter I described allows me to do just that without changing the shape of the ball.
Yankee1

Cuts Crooked · « **Reply #14 on:** October 12, 2009, 01:47:05 PM »

Well, I'm actually kinda surprized that I didn't get any "nay sayers". My biggest concern isn't bullet placement, I can get them in there with this gun out too 80 yards, but penetration/expansion. Particularly in light of these bigger Iowa corn fed monsters! (one doe I shot last year was over 200LBs field dressed!) I like to get pass through whenever possible so I can have a messy blood trail to follow if need be. (I'm a lousy tracker!!!!!) And it has never failed to amaze me how far a Whitetail can travel thru brush/timber, with it's pump blown to smithereens!

Which leads to 'nuther question. A friend recommened I try Buffalo Bullet Comapnies Ball-et projectiles. This is a very short conical and is supposed to be better at stabilizing in slower twist barrels. I wonder if they might be worth giving a try. Anyone here ever try them, and what success or lack thereof did you have?

S.S. · « **Reply #15 on:** October 12, 2009, 03:29:38 PM »

No telling how many Bison and Griz were killed with a 50 cal. in the early to mid 1800,
Anything in the Deer family is fair game. I have to disagree about the force required to send a
ball down the bore and the distortion caused lessening accuracy. Some of the finest target rifles ever produced came equipped with a small mallet to start the ball down the bore. Some drove the
ball directly into the rifling with no patch.

necchi · « **Reply #16 on:** October 12, 2009, 06:56:50 PM »

Quote from: S.S. on October 12, 2009, 03:29:38 PM

No telling how many Bison and Griz were killed with a 50 cal. in the early to mid 1800,

I'll give ya Bison,,but I'd draw a line way short of Griz!

The L&C Corp of Discovery back in 1803>, ran into several Gizzly Bear,,and had a difficult time killing each one with multiple shots from .54 cal rifles they were carrying.

simonkenton · « **Reply #17 on:** October 13, 2009, 09:16:04 AM »

Yes, Lewis and Clark were having to shoot Mr. Griz 7 or 8 times with their .54 round balls.

Cuts Crooked · « **Reply #18 on:** October 13, 2009, 02:24:16 PM »

Well, I went through some old posts and found some about the ball-ets. Seems llike they get mixed reviews fer accuracy. However, it seems like they do ok in slower twist guns so I will probably order some to try. I don't get to hunt until mid December so I have plenty of time to see how they do from my rifle.

Still...it looks like I may have to stick with RBs so it is good to know that they will do the job at longer ranges. Thanx fer the input so far!

Semisane · « **Reply #19 on:** October 13, 2009, 02:57:40 PM »

From the Lewis & Clark Expedition Journals.

Clark —

Sunday, May 5, 1805

"In the evening we saw a Brown or Grisley beare on a sand beech, I went out with one man Geo Drewyer & Killed the bear, which was verry large and a turrible looking animal, which we found verry hard to kill we Shot ten Balls into him before we killed him, & 5 of those Balls through his lights This animal is the largest of the carnivorous kind I ever saw we had nothing that could way him, I think his weight may be stated at 500 pounds [227 kilograms].... we had him skined and divided, the oile tried up & put in Kegs for use."

necchi · « **Reply #20 on:** October 14, 2009, 04:49:13 AM »

I had great success with those Buffalo Ball-et's, the gooey lube they have makes a wonderful flux in my lead pot when casting rb, just drop one in when adding more lead and stir!

Wasn't overly impressed with the accuracy. In all honesty I tried them with several different loads and different combinations of over powder wad/cushion all to no avail. Even tried adding a layer of Alox,, adding a cig paper wrapping,,
That goo really messed up the bore,,ick!

simonkenton · « **Reply #21 on:** October 14, 2009, 05:03:39 AM »

So the Buffalo Ball-ets work great in the casting pot for making round balls!
That is good to know.

flintlock · « **Reply #22 on:** October 14, 2009, 05:30:48 AM »

If your barrel is rifled deeper (.015-018) it's not going to like the Ball-ets any better than the Reals or the Minies...They are all made for the shallow rifling of a button rifled barrel...

Stick with the round balls...

Cuts Crooked · « **Reply #23 on:** October 14, 2009, 06:28:49 AM »

Quote from: necchi on October 14, 2009, 04:49:13 AM

I had great success with those Buffalo Ball-et's, the gooey lube they have makes a wonderful flux in my lead pot when casting rb, just drop one in when adding more lead and stir!

Wasn't overly impressed with the accuracy. In all honesty I tried them with several different loads and different combinations of over powder wad/cushion all to no avail. Even tried adding a layer of Alox,, adding a cig paper wrapping,,
That goo really messed up the bore,,ick!

My searches indicate that the lube forumla has been changed. So perhaps they won't work as well for flux?

What twist barrel were you guys shooting them through? My flinter has a 1-66 twist with wide shallow grooves.

necchi · « **Reply #24 on:** October 14, 2009, 07:42:21 AM »

Good point there, that experiment was with a Cabelas (investarms) 1-48 .54.

But Sir;
All respect intended, with your obvious experiance, it's suprising your questioning the efficiancy of the .50 RB. Your second guessing yourself like a newbie, when all they can think is "what's the max load" stuff.
Accuracy IS the name of the game for all hunting, you put a .50 rb in the boiler room at 100 with even moderate loads and your breaking ribs to get to the vitals,, you get upwards to 70-80 grns and you have made meat with no trouble.

Take the gun and a round ball and go shoot a deer.!

Cuts Crooked · « **Reply #25 on:** October 14, 2009, 10:28:34 AM »

Necchi,

As I noted earlier, I have never taken a .50 after deer with RBs. So for all practical purposes, I AM an FNG when it comes to the .50 RB and deer hunting. I HAVE taken deer with a .45 and RBs, but circumstaces were different for me then and I was taking shots at 25 -30 yards max. The .45s did fine at those ranges, but I would never try those loads at ranges much beyond that. I have used sabots and conicals in .50 to take deer, and I have used RBs, sabots, and conicals in .54 for the job too. In each case I was venturing into familier territory and knew others who had been there/done that who could tell me a bit about expected terminal performance.

Circumstances having changed for me, since those days of .45 at 25 yards, I find myself expecting my shots to come at somewhat longer distances. And frankly I don't know what to expect from a .490 ball at those ranges...my reason for asking.

And unfortunately in my area 99% of the front stuffers used are those new fangled things, so I have no one around to tell me thier experiance.

The real bottom line for me is that I consider the White Tail to be one of the noblest game animals on earth and I want to make sure I treat my quarry fairly, giving him a quick and merciful death resultant from a well placed shot that does enough damage to kill ASAP. And as noted, I'm a lousy tracker so complete pass though is a factor I look at for a good blood trail to follow if need be. I've noted a few posters commenting on finding thier ball under the hide, clean kill, but not complate pass through. This is good, but total penetration is better! So I'm willing to try anything to increase the odds....(yeah I know...I "could use my dirty word...but I'd like to try my flinter fer a change)

With only about 3" groups at 80 -90 yards my game plan is to try to cut the yardage as much as possible, and put as much projectile on target as I can. I'll test the Ball-ets, but if they don't pan out I'll stick with RBs. To be frank, I don't think one can do too much second guessing where hunting the whitetail is concerned!

All to often what I thought I knew has cost me a trophy

Cuts Crooked · « **Reply #26 on:** October 27, 2009, 06:41:51 AM »

Had a chance to try the ball-ets yesterday. Weather kinda sucked, but I was able to get groups that were slightly better the them than I was getting with RBs, nbot enuff to mention really, just slightly. My groups were centered about 3" higher with these, and recoil was a good bit stouter, which I can live with. Clean up was no different than with my RB loads patched with TC bore butter patches, so the old thing about lousy lube has changed for the better apprently.

Final analysis: They will do the job fine but I think I may stick with my homecast RBs....other than putting more mass on target it's a toss up!

necchi · « **Reply #27 on:** October 27, 2009, 07:30:04 PM »

May your aim be true