QD Scope mounts that allow the fitting of a reciever sight

[Brithunter]

Looking for suitable scope mounts that allow the use of a scope yet allow the reciever sight to remain in place ready for use and allow the scope to be removed quickly and refitted whilst retaining zero. A tall order maybe   but achievable?

The rifle is a Century Arms sporterised P-14 in 303 that has been altered to 303 Imp due to an extremely tight chamber and although they machined off the ears and D & T'd the front ring I have never been able to find out what mounts it was meant to use. Even e-mailing Century got no response at all.

I have decided to totally restyle the rifle including re-machine the rear bridge to a reconised std shape. Recently I purchased a new Redfield reciever sight and in the box was a leaflet giving the dimensions to machine the rear bridge too  . Now I am hoping that I can get another either Redfield 70 or Lyman 57 to fit this rifle and either make or get a suitable front sight ramp. The actual fore sight will be a Watson type made by Parker-Hale, this sight is a protected bead that allows the light to read the beads face so it shows up against the game. As I don't have a ramp yet the height of the rear sight is not set as yet so we have a little lattitude to it's positioning on the side of the rear bridge.

I have been looking at the old style side mounts such as those by Griffin & Howe, Jaeger, EAW (Apel) and Holland & Holland but of course those would require D & T of the side rail unless the base was sweated on. So I am wondering if it's possible to have mounts that could use the front ring mounting holes and perhaps the newly contoured rear bridge. The action is I believe from the serial number of Winchester manufacture so has that troublesome oval hole under where the original rear sight was. I intend to bore that out to make it round so I can plug it nearly invisably as this will be done before the bridge is contoured. Perhaps this "plug" can used as the rear mount?.

[Rangr44]

Have you looked at the XS/Clifton Scout Mount ?  (click & scroll down)

http://www.xssights.com/store/scope.html

It would entirely cover the area where the former rear barrel sight resided.

.

[Brithunter]

Nope I have a rather nice rail mounted Hensoldt 4x dialtyn plus this rifle never had any barrel mounted sights. If possible I would like to use this classic scope. A scout scope is not in the running on this as it would not meet my critera. Thank you for the ideas though.

This is the rifle we are working with, in this photo it's wearing a mount we cobbled up but it's time it was done properly and that dreadful drop belly to the forestock is done something about. I am even toying with the idea of straightening the magazine out:-



and of course remove that horrid brown stain. Hmmm I do have an old P-H walnut stock from one of their modified P-14's which is fairly nicely grained:-



The descision on using this one is still being weighed up.

[gunnut69]

The winchester versions didn't have the onerous hole in the rear bridge, It's likely an Eddystone.. But that is in the main irrellevant.. I am unformiliar with the fore sight you're contemplating but the rear can be done in several ways.. The Lyman sights allow the verticle slide to be removed and returned to zero when re-installed.  The base stays put on the rear ring and the base is removed... A trap butt plate would be an excellant storage area.. Another alternative is one of the Redfield one piece bases that have an integral receiver sight. While not exceptional common they are still fairly frequently seen on some of the internet auction sights.. Leupold makes bases to fit recontoured Enfield rear rings and if their excellant QD base and rings are used it would be a simple matter to remove the scope for iron sight use. generally a rifle works best with either the irons or the scope.. Putting both on the same level for easy aquisition by the eyes is nearly impossible.. also weaver still makes those abominable swing over scope mounts.. There are also other receiver sights meant to be stored and returned to the rifle if the need arises. Maybe even a detachable mount and a folding tang mounted stemmed sight such as a Marbles..

[Brithunter]

Well I have just brought a Lyman 57 SME sight, am waiting on the post to deliver it but it will be a week or so yet from the US to me in the UK. I also have  Redfield W. SME but unfortuneately it's been filed on on the curved mounting surface and is no longer true with 0.010" taper now. I have been considering how I could machine it true but the bottom of the mounting block has also been filed poorly to clear the wood and again not square and seeing as how it was advertised as being in excellent condition I am rather annoyed at it's condition and am trying to sort it out with the vendor. That's the reason I have brought the Lyman 57 in case I have to return this Redfield so at least I have a suitable reciever sight to put on this rifle. If I end up with both then one will go onto one of my Parker-Hales  .

The Refield W.SME has the facility to remove the windage arm quickly as does the Lyman 57 I believe and it's a feature which the Redfield 70 lacks, or at least the 70 RWH I have lacks, as for the scope mounts I am considering the options but those that require a windage screw to hold the rear ring are not in the running as removal whilst easy means a re-zero on re-fitting which is not what I am looking for.

There is a Hensodlt 6x Duralyt scope with it's claw mounts including the bases  that it may be possible to buy depending on how much the seller will accept, the asking price is a bit high but I hope we can come to an arrangement on the price  , these claw mounts would of course make the scope high enough to clear the windage arm thus setting the scope higher. Now I tend to shoot with a head erect posture so that's not so bad and if required the comb and cheekpiece can be made adjustable as was done on some German sporting rifles equipped with both iron and glass sights.

Now this is the "Watson" foresight:-







and these are two scopes I am considering using:-


bottom is the Zeiss Jena 6x and top is the Hensodlt:-



Sorry about the photos, had to use mothers litle camera unitl i can get a card reader for my own camera.

[Nobade]

Somebody, I believe it is New England Gunsmithing, offers a nice little rear sight that clamps on a Weaver base. I have been contemplating the smae thing on one of my rifles, just remove the scope and replace it with the sight. Since it's a Weaver system, the zero should be maintained during the swaps. Those sights are in the Brownell's catalog.

[Keith L]

Since it's a Weaver system, the zero should be maintained during the swaps.

I recommend you try that out before you go hunting.  Holding zero is not automatic.  I won't take a scope off a gun and put it back on without shooting and zeroing it.

[Brithunter]

Hmmm keith then may I suggest you change your mounts as there are those who do return to zero EVERY TIME  I even take scopes off when cleaning the bore as it makes access to the breech easier and do not have problems as the mounts are designed and made to return to zero 

[gunnut69]

I would have to check each rifle and nmount system before that level of trust.. There's a lot of tolerance in the weaver systems.. and that equals dispersion..

[Brithunter]

Now Keith I didn't mention Weaver  although I do have a rifle with some of them on it. However I was thinking more along these lines:-





Unfortunately these required a lot of fitting as their profile on the bases did not match that of the action  so I doubt I would buy them again plus the bases are too high to allow use of normal iron sights :-


as you can see.

Now these do return to zero and aloow use of the iron sights:-




just what you would expect form Apel EAWswing mounts but they are expensive 

Now these also return to zero:-


However I don't really like them that much. They are of course the old Parker-Hale mount blocks (Alloy) with P-H Roll off alloy rings and when I can afford to I will swop the mounts for some steel ones, which type is the question for the moment, the P-H alloy rings will be kept for possible use on a BSA as the Hunter, Majestic and Monarch at least have actions machined to accept them. No it's the alloy bases that I don't like much.