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Online Matt

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And now we have...Climate Gate...
« on: November 23, 2009, 03:47:42 PM »
Climate Emails Stoke Debate
Scientists' Leaked Correspondence Illustrates Bitter Feud over Global Warming
By KEITH JOHNSON

The scientific community is buzzing over thousands of emails and documents -- posted on the Internet last week after being hacked from a prominent climate-change research center -- that some say raise ethical questions about a group of scientists who contend humans are responsible for global warming.

The correspondence between dozens of climate-change researchers, including many in the U.S., illustrates bitter feelings among those who believe human activities cause global warming toward rivals who argue that the link between humans and climate change remains uncertain.

Some emails also refer to efforts by scientists who believe man is causing global warming to exclude contrary views from important scientific publications.

"This is horrible," said Pat Michaels, a climate scientist at the Cato Institute in Washington who is mentioned negatively in the emails. "This is what everyone feared. Over the years, it has become increasingly difficult for anyone who does not view global warming as an end-of-the-world issue to publish papers. This isn't questionable practice, this is unethical."

In all, more than 1,000 emails and more than 2,000 other documents were stolen Thursday from the Climate Research Unit at East Anglia University in the U.K. The identity of the hackers isn't certain, but the files were posted on a Russian file-sharing server late Thursday, and university officials confirmed over the weekend that their computer had been attacked and said the documents appeared to be genuine.

"The selective publication of some stolen emails and other papers taken out of context is mischievous and cannot be considered a genuine attempt to engage with this issue in a responsible way," the university said.

Most climate scientists today argue that the earth's temperature is rising, and nearly all of those agree that human activity is likely to be a prime or at least significant cause. But a vocal minority dispute one or both of those views.

A partial review of the hacked material suggests there was an effort at East Anglia, which houses an important center of global climate research, to shut out dissenters and their points of view.

In the emails, which date to 1996, researchers in the U.S. and the U.K. repeatedly take issue with climate research at odds with their own findings. In some cases, they discuss ways to rebut what they call "disinformation" using new articles in scientific journals or popular Web sites.

The emails include discussions of apparent efforts to make sure that reports from the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, a United Nations group that monitors climate science, include their own views and exclude others. In addition, emails show that climate scientists declined to make their data available to scientists whose views they disagreed with.

The IPCC couldn't be reached for comment Sunday.

In one email, Benjamin Santer from the Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory in Livermore, Calif., wrote to the director of the climate-study center that he was "tempted to beat" up Mr. Michaels. Mr. Santer couldn't be reached for comment Sunday.

In another, Phil Jones, the director of the East Anglia climate center, suggested to climate scientist Michael Mann of Penn State University that skeptics' research was unwelcome: We "will keep them out somehow -- even if we have to redefine what the peer-review literature is!" Neither man could be reached for comment Sunday.

The emails were published less than a month before the opening of a major climate-change summit in Copenhagen.

Representatives of the American Association for the Advancement of Science, a large professional organization, expressed concern that the hacked emails would weaken global resolve to curb greenhouse-gas emissions. The association believes "that climate change is real, it is related to human activities, and the need to counteract its impacts is now urgent," said Ginger Pinholster, an association spokeswoman. She added that the association's journal, Science, evaluates papers solely on scientific merit.

John Christy, a scientist at the University of Alabama at Huntsville attacked in the emails for asking that an IPCC report include dissenting viewpoints, said, "It's disconcerting to realize that legislative actions this nation is preparing to take, and which will cost trillions of dollars, are based upon a view of climate that has not been completely scientifically tested."

Mojib Latif, a climate researcher at Germany's Leibniz Institute of Marine Sciences, said he found it hard to believe that climate scientists were trying to squelch dissent. Mr. Latif, who believes in man-made global warming but who has co-authored a paper ascribing current cooling to temporary natural trends, said, "I simply can't believe that there is a kind of mafia that is trying to inhibit critical papers from being published."


Source:http://online.wsj.com/article/SB125883405294859215.html

If you want a copy of the files for your own research get them here : http://www.filedropper.com/foi2009

or here : http://88.80.16.63/leak/climactic-research-unit-foi-leaked-data.zip



Matt
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Offline Redtail1949

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Re: And now we have...Climate Gate...
« Reply #1 on: November 23, 2009, 04:46:58 PM »
There you go again Questioning AL GORE he has already told you that there is no debate to be had Global Warming IS A FACT!.......lol

Offline Oldshooter

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Re: And now we have...Climate Gate...
« Reply #2 on: November 23, 2009, 06:11:23 PM »
Heard today that "they" say its too late to fix it. so if we dont have the ability to  fix it, how in hell did we  have the ability to cause it?

Always thought it was a fraud, especially when algore got involved. now obama wants to use it to spread more wealth! Cap and trade/ or cap and tax!  What was it rahm emanuel said,"You never let a serious crisis go to waste."

These charlatans need to be stopped!

Thanks for the post! Pard.
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Offline slim rem 7

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Re: And now we have...Climate Gate...
« Reply #3 on: November 23, 2009, 06:25:58 PM »
as to how it pertains to us individuals i totally agree about global warming.. i also believe in global cooling..
 heck most areas experience winter ,summer spring an fall.
  as to the whole globe warming .. im not much of a believer if it is the case..that we can do anything about it..we can bomb the planet into an abyss of heat ..followed by frozen ground.. at least thats what ive heard happens when we block the sunlight for no telling how long..
 my grandpa used to say there always going to be the remnant left that continues after most of a
particular creation is more or less wiped out..who knows mabe they go down deep with in the earth
where we know there is ample heat thats not from the sun.. mabe they figure some way to survive the earths crust being frozen..who knows whats coming .. yall know who i think does..k sara sara..
 but mikes post was about hackers revealing criminal activity by scientist trying to be thought of as right ..
 so much so that they are willing to deny any opposing view..
   one thig i like about this forum is that Grey Beard will let somebody know if he thinks thier opinion stinks
but if he can help it ,,he doesn t deny them thier opinion..i kinda like that.. many forums arn t like that at all.slim
 

Offline SM Bob

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Re: And now we have...Climate Gate...
« Reply #4 on: November 23, 2009, 07:24:29 PM »
Looks like, in my opinion, that phony hukster Al Gore and all of his fellow conspirators are all wet. This whole global warming deal has been nothing
but a scam from the beginning. Let's hope this latest development gets some
traction and blows this whole scam of the commie left apart for good!

                                     Robert

Offline Squib

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Re: And now we have...Climate Gate...
« Reply #5 on: November 23, 2009, 08:38:09 PM »
industrial operations really do cause problems, mainly poisoning drinking water and ... well that's the one that scares me the most.  Trash can be burnt or recycled, we'll run out of gasoline soon enough anyways (which is what I think this is really about, they just want to price out the little people and monopolize what's left for the rich and powerful) so WHY stop/slow the usage now, the earth is currently cooling, liberals in california crying about this stuff are still living on the same beaches--weird that the sea level is rising yet they haven't had to relocate yet!!! and yet with all this bs to think about... no one protects our water supply, aquifers can get shutdown, water towers get contaminated, creeks and even LAKES get polluted, but no one worries about that much

if that much crap was in the air it would fall down with precipitation, also particulate in the air DOES collect condensation and stimulate rain, also a hotter earth would rain more--especially with more surface area to the oceans and the polar ice caps melting right???

they're trying to monopolize the oil... if they cared about the environment so much they'd outlaw non bio-degradable plastics for beverages and food items (most trash in the us is that kind of thing), make everyone go back to waxpaper like in the early 1900s...

oh yeah, killing animals for food is wrong, but zoos and animal habitats are okay (they put out CO2, lots at big farms, ranches, etcetera)

carpooling and ESPECIALLY public transportation is good for energy consumption (driving a huge bus around a large city in non-stop circuits all day long, stop and go, carrying LOTS of people to weight down the bus during am and pm rush hours, or no one in the middle of the night is smarter than driving for ten minutes to work and leaving your car parked and off/ not burning gas)

the list goes on and on, I'm kind of glad that this is a consumer society (USA) because if the rich weren't always trying to get their products sold to all the little people aka consumers,  then they'd be cracking the whip like the old days to make their money ( I prefer factory labor to plantation life)

Offline magooch

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Re: And now we have...Climate Gate...
« Reply #6 on: November 24, 2009, 03:41:10 AM »
Haven't you guys heard?  Global warming is old hat and even "climate change" is not the hip thing anymore.  It's now acidification of the oceans.  It's the end of the world!  :o
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Offline Questor

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Re: And now we have...Climate Gate...
« Reply #7 on: November 24, 2009, 04:13:06 AM »
Despite what CNN would have you believe, and what NPR fails to report at all, this is a big deal because academic fraud is a firing offense in any academic institution. Since it's publicly funded, there should be a government inquiry.

This is no laughing matter because it undermines the institution and their results.

On a related note, the baseline models that are currently being used to argue in favor of global warming are based on a model done by East Anglia. This information is the basis of many assumptions. However, the data was destroyed by East Anglia in the mid 1980s and there is no way to reproduce the results they got in the models.
Safety first

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Re: And now we have...Climate Gate...
« Reply #8 on: November 24, 2009, 07:34:05 AM »
you're telling me that a large body of salty water is caustic.... REALLY?!

wow, I can't believe it

I bet if they look through enough of the ocean they'll find a lot of things.. and they would if it had some political weight

but what about american bodies of water that are polluted... what about cleaning those up, and picking up trash on the highway, no one seems to care much about those things that are obviously affecting us right now

Offline mcwoodduck

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Re: And now we have...Climate Gate...
« Reply #9 on: November 24, 2009, 07:51:41 AM »
industrial operations really do cause problems, mainly poisoning drinking water and ... well that's the one that scares me the most.  Trash can be burnt or recycled, we'll run out of gasoline soon enough anyways (which is what I think this is really about, they just want to price out the little people and monopolize what's left for the rich and powerful) so WHY stop/slow the usage now, the earth is currently cooling, liberals in california crying about this stuff are still living on the same beaches--weird that the sea level is rising yet they haven't had to relocate yet!!! and yet with all this bs to think about... no one protects our water supply, aquifers can get shutdown, water towers get contaminated, creeks and even LAKES get polluted, but no one worries about that much

if that much crap was in the air it would fall down with precipitation, also particulate in the air DOES collect condensation and stimulate rain, also a hotter earth would rain more--especially with more surface area to the oceans and the polar ice caps melting right???

they're trying to monopolize the oil... if they cared about the environment so much they'd outlaw non bio-degradable plastics for beverages and food items (most trash in the us is that kind of thing), make everyone go back to waxpaper like in the early 1900s...

oh yeah, killing animals for food is wrong, but zoos and animal habitats are okay (they put out CO2, lots at big farms, ranches, etcetera)

carpooling and ESPECIALLY public transportation is good for energy consumption (driving a huge bus around a large city in non-stop circuits all day long, stop and go, carrying LOTS of people to weight down the bus during am and pm rush hours, or no one in the middle of the night is smarter than driving for ten minutes to work and leaving your car parked and off/ not burning gas)

the list goes on and on, I'm kind of glad that this is a consumer society (USA) because if the rich weren't always trying to get their products sold to all the little people aka consumers,  then they'd be cracking the whip like the old days to make their money ( I prefer factory labor to plantation life)

There is a difference between pollution and GLOBAL MAN MADE climate change.
I agree there can be reasons to use less and pollute less but there is no reason to limit Fuel, Power, or other resources based on FALSE science.
The people that are promoting this want to impower themselves, limit you, and HATE capitalism thinking it is unfair that some will risk their fortune, and some are smarter, and others have gifts that people want to pay for. 
It is all Class envy crap, where they think you should live a certain way and think the way these small minded communist do.
These are the same people leading the charge on, more taxes, higher taxes, anti gun, anit meat / hunting, and more central government power of a demand economy like the Soviet Union.  Why these people do not pick up a history book and look at what a mess the Soviet Union was, rationing food, medicine, and resources while polluting everything they touched from oil production, power, and nuke waste.
omeone needs to explain that communism does not work.  Greed and fear of death work. 

Offline KB21

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Re: And now we have...Climate Gate...
« Reply #10 on: November 24, 2009, 07:55:09 AM »
There should definitely be a federal investigation of this.  I highly doubt that will happen though.  What this information will do is cause the liberals in congress to push even harder to pass their cap and tax bill.  I would say that we should flood our reps and senators with e-mails, letters, and phone calls about the outrage over this, but they don't listen to us anyway, so what good would it do.

Offline mcwoodduck

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Re: And now we have...Climate Gate...
« Reply #11 on: November 24, 2009, 08:20:13 AM »
you're telling me that a large body of salty water is caustic.... REALLY?!

wow, I can't believe it

I bet if they look through enough of the ocean they'll find a lot of things.. and they would if it had some political weight

but what about american bodies of water that are polluted... what about cleaning those up, and picking up trash on the highway, no one seems to care much about those things that are obviously affecting us right now

Why not take the lead from Ducks Unlimited and take your $ and people that think like you and directly do something about it?
Do not ask the Government to do it.  Take the bull by the horns and do it your self.  
You can go to the courts and see if you can get bodies that need to do Community Service or even prisoners.  But asking the Government to do anything or make laws to deal with it will only cause problems you did not intend.

Offline ms

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Re: And now we have...Climate Gate...
« Reply #12 on: November 24, 2009, 08:26:18 AM »
Thank's Matt I wonder what will be the next move from the NWO people?

Offline Redhawk1

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Re: And now we have...Climate Gate...
« Reply #13 on: November 24, 2009, 08:27:42 AM »
Most of us knew it was B.S. from the get go...
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Offline Dixie Dude

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Re: And now we have...Climate Gate...
« Reply #14 on: November 24, 2009, 08:28:49 AM »
Global Cooling next or a giant astroid might hit the earth?

Offline jcn59

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Re: And now we have...Climate Gate...
« Reply #15 on: November 24, 2009, 08:33:36 AM »
Global cooling was cause for concern in the seventies, if I remember correctly.  

Then  "POOF !"   it was gone, like a pile of Crap!  

We're just on Crap, chapter II now.
Vote them all out, EVERY election!
 
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Offline The Hermit

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Re: And now we have...Climate Gate...
« Reply #16 on: November 24, 2009, 01:59:19 PM »
The sad fact of all of this is that you can't trust any source of information anymore. It seems every entity has a political agenda and that is what drives reports. Nothing is black and white anymore. All information appears skewed. I feel like Demogenes searching for an honest man.



    The Hermit

Offline LONGTOM

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Re: And now we have...Climate Gate...
« Reply #17 on: November 24, 2009, 04:56:42 PM »
Oldshooter:
Quote
Heard today that "they" say its too late to fix it.

If it's to late to fix it then why in the devils name are they wasting so much money on it?

I have always believed that it is just the natural rotation of the earth and one day we will be back in a cooling stage.
Kind of looks like we are in that cooling stage already.
At least that is what some of the experts are saying.

The Hermit:
Quote
The sad fact of all of this is that you can't trust any source of information anymore. It seems every entity has a political agenda and that is what drives reports. Nothing is black and white anymore. All information appears skewed.

Hermit, what you said is the only thing that anyone can believe.


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Offline Oldshooter

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Re: And now we have...Climate Gate...
« Reply #18 on: November 24, 2009, 05:11:38 PM »
Quote
Oldshooter:

Quote
Heard today that "they" say its too late to fix it.

If it's to late to fix it then why in the devils name are they wasting so much money on it?

Great question? Longtom
I'll lay you odds that this will not even be discussed by the state run media or the administration.
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Offline Squib

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Re: And now we have...Climate Gate...
« Reply #19 on: November 24, 2009, 08:36:31 PM »
greed and fear of death.... haha yeah that about sums it up... maybe ambition


all the climate change, economic meltdown, healthcare, gun control, multi-national treaty organizations at once, seems like a techtonic shift in the political world and it's scary... and during the whole thing going on now (whatever you want to call it, I don't know what word fits) some governments (other than china and korea and iran//eastern places) are attempting to regulate the internet, it's even being considered here.  Fairness doctrine comeback attack on talk radio, consolidating television sources (WHY!!!!) too.  I think they're stirring up a lot of stuff now, getting ready to throttle the media machine (if they choke out radio-which hasn't been dominant since tv, choke out internet AFTER internet totally chokes out newspapers-almost has and then get control over television) and then after we're blind and deaf to anything but propaganda, make some really big moves to redistribute wealth and resources, swallow up the world in war again.  Huge scale battlefront type stuff like world war two no, because the militaries of most developed countries would scorch the earth without using nukes, nukes aren't impossible to get for second rate nations, and it's not sneaky... I think we're gonna see a lot of "peace-keeping" missions after every coup, like the us seems to do a lot of now in the oilfields, "pacifying" the "insurgents" aka people that HATE foreigners and western power mongers.  Hopefully the people in the middle east keep doing what they've been doing (beating up on western forces that encroach upon their sovereignty) because if they go down then who is next?  American Conservative are next, we've got guns and guts to fight.  Also we lots of oil (untapped, ready to drill), technology, lots of people... if I were a power hungry puppeteer, I'd string up america and make it dance (bloomberg, soros, various high profile politicians, you think of whoever you want at the helm).  As for power, build a few nuclear reactors and wind turbines, a few dams... solar power is enough to power a house and although not financially feasible at the moment cars aren't that big or heavy so give it a few years and they'll be more mobile via alternate energy means.

Offline ironglow

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Re: And now we have...Climate Gate...
« Reply #20 on: November 25, 2009, 12:30:35 AM »
  Hey guys;
  "Climate change"..is an undeniable fact..spring..summer...fall...winter. It happens around here every year! ;) Of course, with the last 11 years or so being rather cool, sometimes it seems more like ..winter...spring...winter..spring here in the north east.
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline magooch

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Re: And now we have...Climate Gate...
« Reply #21 on: November 25, 2009, 03:52:53 AM »
Exactly right, Ironglow; that's why I favor anything that will actually bring global warming on.  Who the hell in their right mind would want global cooling?
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Offline mcwoodduck

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Re: And now we have...Climate Gate...
« Reply #22 on: November 25, 2009, 06:59:12 AM »
What I find most disturbing is the Science of this discounted the SUN and the solar flares and other activities.
Sounds like the health care Bill "we are going to lower Health care costs by not looking at the costs!"
Not looking at what the sun , the source of the heat is doing is pure junk science, similar to the flat earth ideas of the 1400's

Offline ironglow

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Re: And now we have...Climate Gate...
« Reply #23 on: November 25, 2009, 10:16:41 AM »
  These same lying "scientists" had  tree study from Siberia. They studied many trees, but settled upon just 3 of them..which fit into their global warming agenda. Just 3 trees..and they want to cripple industry and jobs all over the world with this "scientific study".
 
    These "scientists" have done to science, what scantily clad, loose women walking the streets in slum neighborhoods are doing.
  The loose women are just more honest about their trade.
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline jimster

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Re: And now we have...Climate Gate...
« Reply #24 on: November 25, 2009, 12:26:43 PM »
Well hopefully the professors and scientists will be blasted for trying to alter and hide information in the name of politics and money, but I doubt any clear thinking person ever thought humans affected climate change that much.  Climate changed drastically a bunch of times before humans were here. 
There isn't anything man could do to change the temps on this planet.  Imagine that....we sit on a planet that has a core as hot as the surface of the sun, spinning around a sun (that has a life span) and people think they have the power to change the temp.  Never did make sense to me.

Won't be long now and we should see Al Gore spitin and sputerin over this, he's made millions on global warming and he planned to make millions more. 
 

Offline 45-70.gov

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Re: And now we have...Climate Gate...
« Reply #25 on: November 25, 2009, 12:39:36 PM »
what  is their  motivation  i  alwas  wondered

then  one day  it dawned  on  me

the  is  only  one logical  solution  for  ANY  global  problem

it  can  ONLY be solved  by global  government

now  that  we know their  motivation
we  know  what to  resist
when drugs are outlawed only out laws will have drugs
DO WHAT EVER IT TAKES TO STOP A DEMOCRAT
OBAMACARE....the biggest tax hike in the  history of mankind
free choice and equality  can't co-exist
AFTER THE LIBYAN COVER-UP... remind any  democrat voters ''they sat and  watched them die''...they  told help to ''stand down''

many statements made here are fiction and are for entertainment purposes only and are in no way to be construed as a description of actual events.
no one is encouraged to do anything dangerous or break any laws.

Offline billy_56081

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Re: And now we have...Climate Gate...
« Reply #26 on: November 25, 2009, 12:46:55 PM »
I hope it didn't take this coming out to tell you AlGore and Bono were complete frauds. AlGore uses more energy in one year than any 10 people here on GBO. And the amount of energy used by Bono and his band to tour in one month would be enough to last an average American a lifetime.


This is nothing but a way to force the liberal scum agenda on everyone.
99% of all Lawyers give the other 1% a bad name. What I find hilarious about this is they are such an arrogant bunch, that they all think they are in the 1%.

Offline mcwoodduck

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Re: And now we have...Climate Gate...
« Reply #27 on: November 25, 2009, 05:31:23 PM »
Don't forget Ted Danson who said almost 20 years ago "if we don't stop using gasoline and deisel fuel the oceans will be dead in 10 years.

Offline mcwoodduck

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Re: And now we have...Climate Gate...
« Reply #28 on: November 25, 2009, 05:34:23 PM »
Can I sue Al Gore for all the Global Warming myth crap and taxes that have added to my costs?
Where is that shyster, John Edwards.  Can someone say greedy Class action?

Offline Squib

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Re: And now we have...Climate Gate...
« Reply #29 on: November 25, 2009, 05:37:34 PM »
it's been going on for that long?  I remember hearing it when I was a kid, and thinking that all the people from the coasts were gonna have to move here to mo and crowd us in like they are in the big cities.... I don't make much more than minimum wage so I guess housing demand ain't that bad yet?!   san diego isn't under water yet so what gives, are we just waiting for one more big chunk of ice the size of a glacier to bust off an ice cap?  hey if it did happen at least dc would go away  :o