Anyone shoot a Nagant 7.62X38R handgun?

[Couger]

Does anyone at GBO shoot one of thes Russian revolvers?  That shoots the 7.62X38R cartridge?

Thanks!

[Happyguy]

I shoot one and I also reload for it. I use RCBS dies and 32 caliber hbwc over 2.8 grains of Titegroup. I have also made some brass from 223, it is just is time consuming. David

[NRAJOE]

I had one but sold it along with 15 boxes of the Russian yellowbox ammo.

Fun gun, but hardly ever shoot it so it went.

[MGMorden]

I've got one.  Comfortable in my hand for sure (despite it being one of the ugliest guns I've ever seen ).   So far I've only shot the HotShot 7.62 Nagant ammo through it.  Function was fine, but with that ammo mine shoots VERY high.  At 25 yards I wasn't even touching the target.  Closed down to about 5 yards and it was impacting 6-7" above POA for me (that was shooting single action, so I don't THINK it was the trigger).

Functionally, the gun is definitely odd, but reliable.  The gas seal design is interesting.  The cylinder freely spinning when the hammer is at rest always struck me as odd (just seems like there should be a half-cock on it ).  Unloading is weird too.  No push out rod like the single actions I've shot, and the cylinder doesn't swing out nor does it top break.  Unless I'm just being dense, the only way I found to get out the empties was to rotate them to the loading position, turn the revolver back, and shake/tap it so that they fall out 1 at a time. 

Still, at current prices they're certainly a good deal.  I've blown the cost of one of them on dates that went nowhere, so putting that down on something I can keep forever certainly isn't too bad .  Also given how much all the previously "cheap" ammo has increased in cost (while most oddball stuff has stayed the same), the ammo really isn't that expensive if you order online.  That said, I have considered grabbing one of the .32ACP cylinders for it.

[Hank08]

Mg, Pull the cylinder pin forward then swing to the right and then punch the cases out just like on a single action.  I have one with the .32 acp cylinder rechambered to .32 H&R.  Shoots great.  115 gr. @ 1100 fps.  I have 2 Ruger .32 H&Rs and it is more accurate than either of them.
H08

[GRIMJIM]

Fun to shoot definately, horrible triggers.

[1911crazy]

I have one but i wouldn't call it ugly its more unique and exactly what i would expect out of russia.  For the price of these if your into the C&R stuff you have to get one.

[a4beltfed2000]

Price of the ammo is definately a ouch(22.00 per box here), but it is a fairly accurate pistol. I can pick one up here without using my C&R for 85.00 but I spent almost 100.00 on 5 boxes of ammo. I have 2 of them and really like them but I sure wouldn't throw the brass away......If I could make some brass or find some dies for reloading them, I would definately be interested in shooting them alot more.

One of the local gun shops who specializes in unique C&R guns has a original Nagant pistol chambered for .22 lr (training gun) it was all matching but for 925.00 I can buy alot of 7.62X38....

[kwells2006]

i had one and absolutely loved it. oddly enough, i had my best luck reloading it with 30carbine dies... who'd a thunk? accuracy was typical for a old russian war dog. never tried anything but fiocchi and hand loads. fiocchi is underpowered. i miss mine... 1938 tula...

[Buckwheat Jack]

I have two. I have used 32H&R Mags, but am in process of gearing up to use 32-20 brass and make some shorter ammo. May give em a try in SASS match, I have "altered" them to single action only.

[Hank08]

I have 2 but with .32 H&R mag cylinders and higher front sights both shoot good.  I know shooters who just shoot the .32 S&W longs in the regular cylinder, cases swell but don't split.
H08

[gandog56]

Got one, and have only fired the Hotshot ammo through it. Can't understand why Fiocchi charges almost twice as much a box than Hotshot.

[coyotejoe]

I really don't mean to step on any toes but I keep my Nagant just to show off what I consider to be the most ridiculous handgun ever built. Double action trigger pull is impossible, single action is hard, accuracy is poor, it is a pip squeak cartridge and I can reload a cap&ball Colt faster than the Nagant. The gas seal is a novel concept but if improved ballistics was the goal they could have accomplished that by just loading half a grain more powder into a conventional cartridge. Oh yeah, and it's butt ugly to boot!

[Hank08]

Double action isn't good but not impossible, single action (on my 2) is good (not great) but good.  I shoot 115 gr. @ 1100 fps (factory load is 100gr. at 1100 fps according to cartridges of the world).  The gas seal was for accuracy rather than improved ballistics.  Russia won many world championships using this system.  Both mine are very accurate with the load I shoot in them.  Yep, they are kinda homely compared to the American designs were used to.
It's not my favorite handgun but mine are accurate , light, easy to pack, cheap, hold 7 rnds,
tough (built to take a licking and feep on ticking).  A lot of jackrabbits (up there in jackrabbit heaven) are wishing they weren't as accurate as they are.
H08

[Gerry N.]

I got mine in a welcome deal from Century a few years back for $49.95 they sent me a nice refurbed M1895 Nagant and an unissued M38 Turkish Mauser.

My Nagant has a long heavy nearly useless double action trigger and a sweet single action of about 4 lbs with no creep and no drag.  Apparently I'm the only one who has one like that.  It's my fishin', huntin' and campin' sidearm cause it was nearly free and has a rilly kewl lanyard that came with it.   That and ammo's cheap.

I load Speer 98gr HBWC's base forward over .3cc of Unique in .32-20 brass formed in .30 Carbine dies.  I don't know the velocity, but I did hit a squirrel amidships with one of 'em at about 15'.  Cut the little sucker in two, it did.  It's a pretty good plinking load, I can hit a soda cracker most of the time out to about 40 feet.   I lucked into an almost full box of the Speer wadcutters at a garage sale for five bucks.  There's gotta be nearly a thousand of 'em and that ugly little revolver just eats 'em up like candy.

I didn't know any better'n to use .30 Carbine dies, and .32-20 brass, and danged if they don't work just fine.   It occured to me to seat the bullets until the cylinder would turn, then crimp 'em.  Half a dozen guys have told me it won't work, the thing has no forcing cone,  accuracy will be non existant, yada, yada.........but I think I'll just keep on doin' it until it doesn't work any more.

Gerry N.

[gandog56]

I really don't mean to step on any toes but I keep my Nagant just to show off what I consider to be the most ridiculous handgun ever built. Double action trigger pull is impossible, single action is hard, accuracy is poor, it is a pip squeak cartridge and I can reload a cap&ball Colt faster than the Nagant. The gas seal is a novel concept but if improved ballistics was the goal they could have accomplished that by just loading half a grain more powder into a conventional cartridge. Oh yeah, and it's butt ugly to boot!

I takes just as long to load my Ruger Superblackhawk. And some of my best shooting rifles are ugly Russian ones. According to your logic, why should anybody own a .22?

[coyotejoe]

I think you are overlooking the point that the Nagant was supposed to be a military pistol, that's why pipsqueak caliber and slow reloading matter. And NO it does not take nearly so long to reload a Ruger or any common single action revolver as the Nagant. You do not have to rotate the Ruger's ejector rod to unlock it and pull it forward and rotate the assembly to line with the chambers. The Ruger's ejector rod is not so short that you have to finish the ejection by flicking the rim with a finger nail. You do not have to manually retract the Ruger's ejector before rotating to the next chamber. You do not have to pivot the ejector assembly back to center, push the rod in and rotate to lock.
 I was not speculating when I said I can reload a cap & ball revolver faster than a Nagant, I've timed it with a stop watch!  Just imagine the cavalryman trying to perform the delicate operations of reloading his Nagant on horseback, wearing heavy gloves in a Russian winter while under fire! I have great sympathy for the Russian soldier who had to trade in his Smith & Wesson top break .44 for that ridiculous piece of crap.
  Maybe there is an accurate Nagant somewhere but the three I've owned would not do better than 4-5" groups at 25 yards with either the Russian match ammo or Fiocchi brand ammo and point of impact was no where near point of aim for any of them. They would make a fair small game gun but poor accuracy rules that out.
And using 32/20 brass for reloads is a poor idea for several reasons. First, the 32/20 rim is too thick to function in a revolver with proper headspace.  Apparently a great many Nagants do have excessive headspace as 32/20 brass will function in some, even though it should not and will not in my current Nagant.  Then the too short brass leaves a bullet of .312" to rattle down a chamber mouth of .335-.338" and then slam into a .308" bore with no forcing cone at all.
  You are right that the Nagant trigger pull is not impossible, it's just impossible to hit anything with a 50 pound trigger pull on a 1 1/2 pound revolver.

[His lordship.]

I have owned 3 of them.  The first was a nice 1938 model, used Fiochi ammo in it, traded it off.  The second was a refinished 1918 or 1912, the date of mfg was not easy to read as the Commies usually ground off the markings from Czar Nicholas's Russia, tighter tolerances than the Soviet made ones, I used 32. S/W longs which shot good but left alot of lead build up, then got a 1944 model, more sloppy than the Czar 1912 model, the .32 S/W long cartridges would jam up bad in the wider cylinders of the 1944, had to use only the correct 7.62 ammo in it.

Ended up selling them all off, just too crude and weird for me, but an interesting experience in firearms history.  The only East Block (Communist) pistol that I kept out of the various CZ-52, the Tokarevs and the 1895 Nagants, is my bought new in the box Bulgarian Makarov pistol.  But that is essentially a Walther PP pistol, more German in design.  Handguns are not a Russian thing, I guess, as they are not good at designing them.

[Gerry N.]

I think you are overlooking the point that the Nagant was supposed to be a military pistol, that's why pipsqueak caliber and slow reloading matter.

In Imperial Russian, Soviet Army and most European Military practice a pistol was never considered a battle weapon as in American practice.  It was and is mainly a badge of authority and actual practicality was not a major influence in military pistol design.   If you want an example of a nearly useless military pistol, look to the 8mm Nambu.

Gerry N.

[rio grande]

I think you are overlooking the point that the Nagant was supposed to be a military pistol, that's why pipsqueak caliber and slow reloading matter. And NO it does not take nearly so long to reload a Ruger or any common single action revolver as the Nagant. You do not have to rotate the Ruger's ejector rod to unlock it and pull it forward and rotate the assembly to line with the chambers. The Ruger's ejector rod is not so short that you have to finish the ejection by flicking the rim with a finger nail. You do not have to manually retract the Ruger's ejector before rotating to the next chamber. You do not have to pivot the ejector assembly back to center, push the rod in and rotate to lock.
 I was not speculating when I said I can reload a cap & ball revolver faster than a Nagant, I've timed it with a stop watch!  Just imagine the cavalryman trying to perform the delicate operations of reloading his Nagant on horseback, wearing heavy gloves in a Russian winter while under fire! I have great sympathy for the Russian soldier who had to trade in his Smith & Wesson top break .44 for that ridiculous piece of crap.
  Maybe there is an accurate Nagant somewhere but the three I've owned would not do better than 4-5" groups at 25 yards with either the Russian match ammo or Fiocchi brand ammo and point of impact was no where near point of aim for any of them. They would make a fair small game gun but poor accuracy rules that out.
And using 32/20 brass for reloads is a poor idea for several reasons. First, the 32/20 rim is too thick to function in a revolver with proper headspace.  Apparently a great many Nagants do have excessive headspace as 32/20 brass will function in some, even though it should not and will not in my current Nagant.  Then the too short brass leaves a bullet of .312" to rattle down a chamber mouth of .335-.338" and then slam into a .308" bore with no forcing cone at all.
  You are right that the Nagant trigger pull is not impossible, it's just impossible to hit anything with a 50 pound trigger pull on a 1 1/2 pound revolver.

There IS a forcing cone.  The cylinder chamber on mine has a .334 exit hole, and the end of the barrel begins at .335, tapering down to a .300 bore and .312 across grooves.  
I mostly agree with your points though, but I just can't see loading a cap and ball faster than a Nagant.  Impossible, even if you have wrapped and glued charges...you must still put on the caps (talk about heavy gloves!).
Unless you mean swapping a loaded and capped cylinder for an empty one.
I DO pity the poor Russian who had to turn in his S&W .44 revolver....

You can't turn the Nagant into something it isn't.  It ain't a .327 Federal Magnum, nor a defense weapon against hopped-up addicts, or angry bears.  But what it is - a strong and reliable all-steel and wood revolver, with approx. .32 Mag power, that handles and points well, with a lot of history. A great woods tramping, plinking and trappers gun.
For around $100.

The double-action is not so bad on mine - maybe some folks are just spoiled with tuned actions and such

[gandog56]

Besides, you expecting a hair trigger on an 80 dollar handgun?

[rio grande]

I've been shooting mine some more. With the factory .32 longs that came with the revolver it shot great, and about 1" below point of aim, windage perfect, at 10 yards.

 I'm experimenting w/ .311-.312 round balls lubed with Lee liquid Alox, sprue seated down, and light to heavy charges of Red Dot in .32 mag. cases. Loaded and reloaded without dies, just using a little vise and seating the ball about 1/2 way out, so that it seats tight.( Due to the tapered chambers !!! if I seat the ball too deep it will just fall into the case.  Not good as results in presure variations! )
With the light loads no case bulge, but the case does bulge in the middle with heavier loads, as did the factory .32 longs.

With my round ball loads it shoots about 4 to 5 inches low, regardless if load is light or heavy.  Not great accuracy, maybe 2 -3 inches at 10 yards, but I'm working on that! The factory .32 longs were more accurate.

The rb loads w/ heavier charges I've tried shoot right thru a dry 650 page phone book (poor boys chronograph), the lighter loads about 1/2 way thru the phone book.  The heavier loads can shoot a round ball thru a rather dense and heavy treated 2 x 4 about 1/2 the time, the other 1/2 almost thru.  

I want to try 32-20 cases (much better fit in the chambers)  with regular wadcutters at about 95 gr. weight or so, with loads set to develop 1000 to 1100 fps as previous poster related. For possible 'trail' use if I can get accuracy from them.

I got some Win 32-20 brass and the rims are not too thick at all, but the rim diameter is a bit too large on about 25% of them, (rim dia prevents full seating because it hits the ratchet boss at back of cylinder) I will reduce the rim diameter a little on all of my 32-20 cases though, using a power drill and file, should be easy enough.
I can size the 32-20 cases using a .30 cal. Carbine Lee Loader, from comments above that should work.  Not sure about using a Lee Loader to seat bullets because how will I seat .312 dia. bullets since .30 Carbine is designed for .308 bullets?  I can seat round balls in a vise but what about wadcutters?

No leading with these loads I've tried and lots of fun.

BTW, my revolver has a heavy s/a pull and the d/a is not too bad. Just opposite from previous poster. I saved my last shot the other day for a d/a shot at a 1 1/2" bull at 10 yards. Hit it dead center.  Surprised myself a little, but goes to show double action hits are not impossible with these revolvers.

Of course, all Nagants are individuals, so comments about reloading, accuracy, trigger pull etc. may or may not apply to YOUR Nagant!

[rio grande]

I think you are overlooking the point that the Nagant was supposed to be a military pistol, that's why pipsqueak caliber and slow reloading matter.

In Imperial Russian, Soviet Army and most European Military practice a pistol was never considered a battle weapon as in American practice.  It was and is mainly a badge of authority.....
Gerry N.

Gerry, I'm not so sure about that!
"By autumn of 1941, the great arms making center of Tula, just 15 miles south of Moscow, was facing the direct threat of General Heinz Guderian's Panzer divisions. Laborers at the Tula Ordinance Factory set to work at disassembling the plant for relocation east of the Ural Mountains. On October 30 the Communist Party Secretariat ordered a combat division to be formed made up of 17 "Worker's Battalions," consisting mainly of the arms plant's already beleaguered civilian employees.

Official records for these units show that Nagant revolvers were the sole battle weapon of 145 members of each 675 man battalion. And those fighters must have considered themselves well armed, since more than 100 men in each of the units had only Molotov cocktails with which to turn back the German blitzkrieg.
Guderian's armored force was halted by these workers at Tula, in some of the bloodiest close quarters fighting seen up to that point in the war."
http://www.chuckhawks.com/nagant_revolver.htm