357 mag

[45/70fan]

I have a new to me .357 barrel on the way that I'm setting up for my son. What with no supplies to reload available these days I will have to use what I have on hand. I have factory 125gr and 158gr jacketed hollow points. Wondering who has used what for a deer load, plan on staying inside 100 yards.

[cwlongshot]

158 and up SOFT POINTS!!!

IMHO 180's are too heavy for this lil magnum. It really a cells with 150-170g slugs. The onld Speer 160 half jacket was a great hunting bullet for this caliber in a carbine!!

My own favorite loads uses Lil-Gun ( above book so I will not repeat) and a Hornady 158 XTP FP bułlet at almost 2000fps. CHRONOGRAPHED!

Speer makes a very nice 170 Gold Dot that should be just dandy if you feel the need for heavier bullets.

Use the HPs for vermin and targets. They will over expand and under penetrate unless nearly perfectly placed. Limit your hunting shots to a bit over 100 yards and enjoy the venison provided with this setup!

CW

[45/70fan]

158 and up SOFT POINTS!!!

IMHO 180's are too heavy for this lil magnum. It really a cells with 150-170g slugs. The onld Speer 160 half jacket was a great hunting bullet for this caliber in a carbine!!

My own favorite loads uses Lil-Gun ( above book so I will not repeat) and a Hornady 158 XTP FP bułlet at almost 2000fps. CHRONOGRAPHED!

Speer makes a very nice 170 Gold Dot that should be just dandy if you feel the need for heavier bullets.


Use the HPs for vermin and targets. They will over expand and under penetrate unless nearly perfectly placed. Limit your hunting shots to a bit over 100 yards and enjoy the venison provided with this setup!

CW

Thanks CW. I have most of a box of 158 sp left I think. I will sight in with the hp and fine tune, hunt with the sp. I love the 240 XTP's in my .44, will get some 158's when they become available again

[petemi]

I know I'm going to open a can of worms with this one.  I, personally, don't believe the .357 to be an adequate deer round in the hands of a kid. 

Can he hold it rock steady on the vitals, judge yardage, etc. to place a killing shot?  I assume an adult will be there to help with that.

Everyone wants to start their kids out with low recoilers,   Me too, and I understand that.  Kids get fitted out with .357s, .223s, etc. because they have light recoil.  The big factor that's missing is that to be effective, shots with these calibers require shooting skills and control most kids don't have.  I think the greatest factor of all is judgement, and the kids aren't mature enough for that. Add to that the shakes that come with the first deer in your child's sights, and you have a possible disaster of a wounded first deer.  A friend of mine's son just went through that this past season,  Yeah, I found the deer....three days later after wolves, coyotes, ravens and eagles had been there.  It wasn't pretty.

Yes, I carry a .357 Blackhawk all the time hunting.  Perhaps one day I'll have a twenty yard shot at Da Tirty Point Buck from my tree stand, but mostly I carry it for a final shot on a deer if needed.  I own lots of marginal deer caliber rifles from .223 to .357, but I don't hunt deer with them.  The ones I use are medium to big bore deer killers that pack a solid punch.  I'm also an old man, not given to tracking wounded deer anymore.  If it ain't gonna drop right there, I don't shoot.

Patty and I had just moved into this home 23 years ago, and a neighbor, now a friend, came to the door with his grandson.  The purpose of the visit was to ask permission for the grandson to track wounded deer across our property.  The kid was hunting adjacent land with a .357.  Pardon the French, but my wife, Patty is a pisser.  She said words to the effect that if you don't think you can cleanly kill a deer with that rifle, you shouldn't be in the woods with it......Ya know what?.....she's right.....she also hunts and shoots and knows what her guns can and cannot do...a couple of .357s included.

Pete

[hoytcanon]

I normally agree with Pete completely... but I come down on the other side on this one... the single MOST important factor when hunting is ACCURACY... regardless of caliber, you have to put one in the boiler room... and in my experience, the single biggest contributing factor to accuracy is CONFIDENCE. To gain confidence, a youngster has to shoot... and preferably quite a bit... they need to feel and use their chosen weapon and see that the bullets impact where they are aiming... when the moment of truth comes, they will need that confidence to make good decisions and to keep their shooting form together without "peeking," "dropping," or "jerking..." etc... if you put one in the boiler room under 75 yards with a 158 SP from the .357, that deer is going to be down in short order... BUT, if you MISS the boiler room... you are gonna have a tough tracking job, whether you are shooting .357, .44 Mag, .45/70, or .30/06... with a light recoiling caliber kids will shoot and practice more and will have more confidence when the time comes to drop the trigger on Bambi... that is more important than maxing out energy.

[Spanky]

I normally agree with Pete completely... but I come down on the other side on this one... the single MOST important factor when hunting is ACCURACY... regardless of caliber, you have to put one in the boiler room... and in my experience, the single biggest contributing factor to accuracy is CONFIDENCE. To gain confidence, a youngster has to shoot... and preferably quite a bit... they need to feel and use their chosen weapon and see that the bullets impact where they are aiming... when the moment of truth comes, they will need that confidence to make good decisions and to keep their shooting form together without "peeking," "dropping," or "jerking..." etc... if you put one in the boiler room under 75 yards with a 158 SP from the .357, that deer is going to be down in short order... BUT, if you MISS the boiler room... you are gonna have a tough tracking job, whether you are shooting .357, .44 Mag, .45/70, or .30/06... with a light recoiling caliber kids will shoot and practice more and will have more confidence when the time comes to drop the trigger on Bambi... that is more important than maxing out energy.

 
 
Yup.
 
 
 
Spanky

[twoshooter]

My grandson started with the 357, he killed his first 3 deer with it before moving up to a 30/30. The 357 will absolutely kill deer within 100 yards, unless you hit them in the gut etc. I used 158 gr Hornady XTP over 13.8 gr of 2400, that load is about 1650 I think, and held about 1" on my 75 yard pistol range. The deer were all shot between 35 and 70 yards, 2 double lung shots, and the 3rd @ 35 yards, right between the eyes. None were mammoth bucks , live weight was between 90 and 120 pounds, two does and a spike.  If you could/would shoot with a good compound bow, you can certainly do so with a 357.

[petemi]

Accuracy was the main point I was trying to make.  A lot of kids are great shooters.  My eight year old grandson included.  A lot are not.  My friend's boy , who lost the buck, was shooting a .30-30 is a prime example.  He made a very bad 35 yard shot.  The kid can shoot and shoot well, but he was rattled.  The smaller calibers do work on deer, and I know that.  CW took two bucks this past Fall with custom Handis in tiny calibers......but that's CW, an experienced hunter and superb marksman.  jeepman1948s son has had wonderful success on deer with his .357.  He also has been around the block a time or two.

I'm not trying to say that a big caliber bullet will compensate for a bad shot.  We all know it doesn't.  Shot placement is always the key, and that comes from practice and experience.  I suppose the bottom line is does the kid pulling the trigger have it. I've spent more than a couple of nights crawling around the woods with a flashlight trying to find some "guest's" deer.  I no longer do that.

I've had idiots on my land shooting 55 gr. VMAXs out of a .223 at 300 plus yards, wound the deer terribly, and tell me they thought the shot was 200.  Now, if someone asks to hunt my land, I talk to them a while, get an idea of their experience and what they're shooting before I grant or deny permission.  Generally, "once a year deer hunters" get sent home or elsewhere.  If they shoot small or light calibers and can't judge distance, they're gone also.  It's very simple.  I point out a tree or target and ask how far it is.  I own the land, live here, and know.  The same holds true for the .300 Win Mag crowd.  Most of them sight in at 100 yards, go home and half a year later hunt.  They too, for the most part don't have a clue.  The longest shot you will have to take here is about 400 yards.  A savy guy behind a .308, '06, .7mm, .45-70, etc. can do it.  There's no need for super magnums here.

Pete

[45/70fan]

I'm looking to get him shooting more, which is a good thing, and figure this should be light in recoil. He got his first deer with a .410 slug last season..DRT at 23 yards. This should be a nice step up in power and accuracy. Farthest shot available is about 80 yards and we are in a ground blind with a rest.

[nanuk-O-dah-Nort]

if you handload, a Maggie can be loaded long in a Handi to near equal a Maxi

but inside 150 yds, I'd say a Mag factory soft point is as effective as anything.

if a kid will miss with a Mag inside 100yds, he'll miss with anything!

a gut shot deer can go a long ways, regardless of caliber.

I say go for it, and get the kid shooting, and mentor him

[45/70fan]

The barrel arrived today. I feel like a kid on Christmas morning!!!

[YRUpunting?]

The most important thing is get your son a stock that fits him.  I'd start him on the 125's and work way up to 158's.  158 soft points for a hunting round.  Good luck!

[hoytcanon]

A good rule of thumb is buy a package of the smaller 6" desert sized paper plates... Start at 25 yards or so and have the youngster shoot at the plate... If he/she scores consistently, move the plate back in five yard increments... When they can't keep there rounds on the plate "consistently" you know you have exceeded their maximum range... Teach them to recognize that maximum effective range and to be disciplined enough to pass up any shots beyond it. Good luck and have fun with your kids!

[Doublebass73]

American Eagle 158 grain JSP's are a good factory load if you can find them.

[Ganjiro]

 I've used 158 grain aluminum case JHP Blazer ammo with great success on our wild goats but prefer the deeper penetration of JSP on deer and pigs.  My favorite factory load is Winchester white box 158 grain JSP though I think any 158 JSP should work comparably on game so just get the brand that's the most accurate in YOUR rifle.   When I'm after big pigs I use 180 grain hardcast bullets but in my experience still feel confident with the 158 grain JSPs.
I do like the 160 grain Speer semi jacket semi-wadcutters for reloading which I still have a couple boxes of on reserve. 
I do like the Cast Performance 180 grain WFNGC hardcast for reloading too. 

[gcrank1]

Since you are in a blind you can tie out different colored ribbons for the different ranges to help him develop a sense of them.

[nanuk-O-dah-Nort]

Since you are in a blind you can tie out different colored ribbons for the different ranges to help him develop a sense of them.

that is exactly what I have done for myself and others.  small wooden stakes with different colored flags work well in the open for marking distance. 

...When I'm after big pigs I use 180 grain hardcast bullets but in my experience still feel confident with the 158 grain JSPs.
...ance 180 grain WFNGC hardcast for reloading too. 

have you tried using some "Not so hard cast" bullets?    They usually give better performance, and less leading.

[Ganjiro]

...When I'm after big pigs I use 180 grain hardcast bullets but in my experience still feel confident with the 158 grain JSPs.
...ance 180 grain WFNGC hardcast for reloading too. 

have you tried using some "Not so hard cast" bullets?    They usually give better performance, and less leading.

My experience quite the opposite, much better performance with hardcast gas checked bullets, higher velocity with less leading, and better penetration.      Pure lead plain base strictly for low velocity loads.

[nanuk-O-dah-Nort]

...When I'm after big pigs I use 180 grain hardcast bullets but in my experience still feel confident with the 158 grain JSPs.
...ance 180 grain WFNGC hardcast for reloading too. 

have you tried using some "Not so hard cast" bullets?    They usually give better performance, and less leading.

My experience quite the opposite, much better performance with hardcast gas checked bullets, higher velocity with less leading, and better penetration.      Pure lead plain base strictly for low velocity loads.

No one has ever said PURE lead is better, especially with a Plain Base (apples and oranges)....   but a 50/50 mix of pure/WW is a nice alloy, with just enough tin to allow good fillout.

put a gas check on that, and as has been mentioned on here before, try a diameter that just fits with slight resistance in a Fired case, and go with that, it will more often provide better performance.  With LESS leading.
FIT is King.
Penetration may be less, as you may get some expansion.
some folks think that is a Good thing.

[gcrank1]

8# WWts
2# soft lead
a dash of tin
+1 on the 'fit' above to the case

[squirrelslayer]

What about a twenty dollar reamer rental? He can practice all day with .38 spc or .357 mag and not have any trouble handling a maxi...