Reloading for my P3at

[Andrew Quigley]

Bought mine in early December and love it. Want to use lead bullets, 102gr, and Titegroup powder but can't find info. Hodgon doesn't even list a load using lead bullets. Anybody use lead bullets in their 380 reloading? If so what powder do you use and whats the bullet weight? Thanks

[Lee N. Fielder]

I've reloaded lead bullets for the .380 ACP for years.  My old Lyman 46th edition reloading handbook lists the following data for a 92 grain LRN bullet.  The lower powder charge is the starting load and the higher is the max load, none of which is above 16,000 CUP:

Bullseye 2.4 gr - 3.0 gr.
Unique 3.1 gr - 3.7 gr
Red Dot 2.0 gr - 2.6 gr
Green Dot 2.1 gr - 3.0 gr
Blue Dot 4.0 gr - 5.5 gr
WW231 2.3 gr - 3.5 gr

I've had my best results using 3.5 grains of Unique with a 95 gr cast lead bullet.  This load chronographs at about 855 fps in my Walther PP.  For a true 102 grain lead bullet I would recommend backing off a tenth or two since the P3AT is not a particularly beefy gun.

If you want to use a Hogdon powder then HP38 is real close to WW231.  3.0 grains of HP38 should be a safe load with your 102 grain LRN bullets.

-Lee

[Andrew Quigley]

Thanks for the info Lee. I've got some Unique left so I'll give it a try. Got 2 molds to try. Turns out the 102gr actually cast a 95gr and the other cast a 112gr. Both are round nose made by Lee.

[Lee N. Fielder]

With some of the heavier bullets, depending on the shape of the ogive, you can run into problems with OAL.  Load a few test rounds before you start casting hundreds of those 112 grain bullets.

I'm betting that you'll probably have better results with the 95 grain bullets.

-Lee

[nilescoyote]

Anybody use lead bullets in their 380 reloading?

A word of caution on the P3at, I did and well never again. I loaded up several lead round nose bullets (I dont remember the bullet weight as its been a couple years since this happen). I was using either WW231 or Unique, but it was at the starting load powder weight for that powder/bullet combo. I fired 2 or 3 shots with no observed function problems, on the forth shot the gun came apart.

What happened... The unsupported portion of the case ruptured shooting enough gas into the mag to blow out the base and dump all the remaining rounds out as well as separate one side of the steel frame from the polymer frame cracking it.

I sent it back to the factory and was surprised that they replaced parts and made repairs at no cost to me. They did advise to not use lead reloads in the future and since then I only use jacketed bullets for it.

If I had not been shooting in winter with several inches of snow on the ground I may have noticed the slight bulge on the brass that had all ready been fired. But with the snow on the ground I did get the chance to check them as they disappeared from sight. I did later recover them and noticed this AFTER it was to late... But lets be honest, after more than 20years reloading with out any problems how often do you expect a "starting" load to give problems.

I also thank GOD that I was wearing my dept issued hatch gloves with the Kevlar liners. My hands still hurt but I didn't have to pull any imbedded gun parts from my flesh.

[Savage]

I'd never shoot my P3ATs enough to want to reload for them. If I did, I'd go with a bullet in the 90-95gr weight with the starting load of Bullseye. OAL might be a problem with a heavier bullet.
Savage

[Turk]

The unsupported portion of the case ruptured shooting enough gas into the mag to blow out the base and dump all the remaining rounds out as well as separate one side of the steel frame from the polymer frame cracking it.

I understand Kel Tec's reasoning about reloads (may be overcharged etc.) but what was their reasoning about not using a cast bullet relating to the unsupported case? 

Last weekend was my monthly firing of my P3AT 100 rounds.  I use a cast bullet from a lee mold 102 gr. mine casts at 99 gr. with my alloy these loads used GD and the little gun never missed a beat.  The P3AT is not a pleasent gun to shoot but does meet my needs in the summer.  I might add I've increased the accuracy distance by double using a CT sight.

Turk

[44 Man]

The Glock had quite a thing going with shooting cast bullets and several guns came apart.  It seems on the Glock, it can fire without being completely in battery (unlike the 1911 design).  Cast bullet residue can (and did) build up in the front of the chamber.  When it buildt up enough, it prevented the cartridge from going completely forward and then if the gun was fired, the unsupported, thinner part of the case would blow.  Whether the PAT3 will fire without being completely in battery, I don't know.  But that may be the reason for the 'no cast bullets' warning.  Another possibility is that often cast bullets have a small shoulder where they fit at the case mouth.  Standard reloading practice with cast bullets and 1911's is to leave a very small portion of the shoulder sticking out of the case.  Possibly if that was done with the rounds in the Kel-tec, they may have indexed on the shoulder, rather than the case mouth resulting in the blown gun that had the starting load of Bullseye.  I myself, would not hesitate to use hard cast bullets in reloads, but I would be very careful that the shoulder on the bullet was flush with the case mouth on a .380.  44 Man

[rugerman]

To the best of my knowledge ALL gun manufacturers warn against reloads. but thats all that I shoot except for 22 rimfire.

[GH1]

That's interesting about the cast bullets, I just reloaded a bunch for my Bersa .380 that I've yet to try. Yesterday I bought a .380 K-T and from the sounds if it I better not use the cast bullets in it.  Thanks for the heads up.
GH1

[slim rem 7]

kinda funny ..this .380 is the casing i didn t keep ...now its the only one i cant buy
 at most gun stores.

[c1skout]

 I've probably got close to 1000 cast bullet reloads fired through my p3at so far with no issues. I use the Lee factory crimp die as a last step to help guard against bullet set-back when firing. I do get small "smilies" on the bullets but they are not being set-back at all.

[torpedoman]

cast bullets will give a barrel to bullet seal(less blowby )and cause pressures to rise especially true in the polyogonal barrel system. At least thats what i've been told so my cast bullets go thru my makarov and the cz82 gets jacketed only.

[Bernie1]

  I have been reloading for 4 .380 guns for several years now, cast lead and jacketed bullets. Every one of them have given me the same feed ramp bulgeing that you experienced when I was using starting loads of Unique powder. Go to max. and I get reptures.
  So now I use only Power Pistol and can go much hotter without excess case expansion.
  Bernie

[Savage]

While I don't normally load for the .380, I did load a couple the other day. I did a poor job of sorting brass and a couple of .380 cases found it's way into my case feeder. Normally the smaller dia. rim will pop out of the shell plate on the priming stroke. This time they made it all the way around to the bullet seating operation. I caught it before I inserted the bullets. I went ahead and seated one, just for kicks. Made one funny looking round! It's charged for 9mm velocities, but no danger of loading it into a .380. The OAL is way too long for a .380 chamber or magazine. I'll pull the bullet of course, there's no way to know what kind of pressures I'd have with that load combination. FWIW, I loaded a GAP case the other day the same way. Damn I hate those dwarf cases!
If this .380 case had any bulge, the sizing die took it right out. It drops into my case gauge like it was made for it. Next time I accidentally pick up .380 brass, I'll look it over for bulging. I've not checked the brass out of mine. I may have to shoot a few just to check it out!
Savage

[Andrew Quigley]

Mine hasn't fired out of battery when I've had one that had a lil' build up on it. Usually the round has a small sliver of lead that's keeping it from seating all the way but if you pull the trigger it feels broke. but once the round is cleared and another cycled it carries on just fine.