Author Topic: Varget Question  (Read 838 times)

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Offline KeepTryin

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Varget Question
« on: December 27, 2009, 05:17:52 PM »
The limited Lee data I'm currently working with (came with the dies) shows Varget working with both .30-30 and .30-06 using 150 grain jacketed bullets. This is using the Lee dippers that came with the dies and it actually hits the two supplied dippers spot-on. (2.2 and 3.4cc) I use a 180 on the .06 and 170's on the .30-30 for my bought ammo because... well, I don't really know why except it has brought down deer for me. Because my father in law always shoots 180's out of his BAR?) I'm asking myself why not run 150's in both? I use the big gun in longer range situations and honestly have been buying 170's for the little one because that was what was on the shelf. I use the .30-30 for tight woods, but honestly, will a 170 cut brush any better than a 150? They are both gonna deflect, right?

Anyway, what kind of powder is Varget? could I get by with dippers or a thrower or will I need a scale because it is a strange/long granule shape?

Thanks all, I realize these are likely some pretty dumb questions...

Offline torpedoman

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Re: Varget Question
« Reply #1 on: December 27, 2009, 05:37:08 PM »
 I realllllly like to use scales.
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Offline mjbgalt

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Re: Varget Question
« Reply #2 on: December 27, 2009, 05:57:51 PM »
varget is extruded (think mechanical pencil lead broken in pieces). i would never dip powders. i know it can be done and some people prefer it. but for you to ask that question makes me think you may not be that experienced with it and should stick with being careful and using a scale. am i wrong in this assumption?

i would not ever use anything but a scale, and never have. too many things to go wrong.
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Offline necchi

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Re: Varget Question
« Reply #3 on: December 27, 2009, 06:38:06 PM »
Others with more experiance will anwer, but you must be using the Classic Lee loader. Them dippers been around for a long time, alot of folks started with them and still have all their parts. If Lee say's on the supplied list that varget is good for 150's useing the dipper it likley will be just fine. Just follow ALL the directions and don't start changing things.
 The trouble will start useing the same dipper and Varget with a different weight bullet. Different bullets create different pressures to push'm. That's where the scale comes in, you could likley use Varget with different bullets, it is a very versitile powder, but you MUST follow the guide lines for THAT powder and for That bullet. It's a BIG deal.
 A scale should be on your "need too get" list, you can do alot more when you know exactly the weight of the powder your loading

If yer on the computer, questions could and should best be answerd about the Lee kit by Lee Inc. I'm sure thay'll help you.
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Offline securitysix

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Re: Varget Question
« Reply #4 on: December 27, 2009, 06:51:07 PM »
The dippers can work, and I've used them, but always in conjunction with a scale.  Dip, weigh, trickle to goal weight.  I prefer using a powder thrower when possible (RCBS Uniflow is my thrower of choice at the moment), and Varget will go through one, but I still weigh them and trickle up if necessary.

Offline mechanic

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Re: Varget Question
« Reply #5 on: December 27, 2009, 07:49:14 PM »
You can use the dippers, and can do so safely...BUT...you need a scale unless you are following the Lee recipe exactly.  Different weight or different type bullet can get you in trouble without a scale.  Buy the Lee safety scale.  From one of the online sellers it's less than a co pay to the doctor's office or the eye surgeon's.

All powders are exponential.  For instance a min. might be 40gr. a max might be 55gr. and 55.9 might blow up in your face!  Don't risk it.
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Offline Scibaer

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Re: Varget Question
« Reply #6 on: December 28, 2009, 01:41:11 AM »
keeptrying,
 send me your address and i will give you a set of Lee scales, free of charge.
they are not the best scales out there but they do work and are accurate.
glenn

Offline ButlerFord45

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Re: Varget Question
« Reply #7 on: December 28, 2009, 03:20:02 AM »
You need a reloading manual. Go no further with your reloading endevors until you have and have read at least one, better, two or more.  You obviously have access to internet, try down loading from powder manufacturers and others.
To get you started:
http://www.three-peaks.net/reload.htm
http://www.hodgdon.com/PDF/Hodgdon%20Basic%20Manual.pdf  since you're asking about Varget.

Quote
This is using the Lee dippers that came with the dies and it actually hits the two supplied dippers spot-on.
  Wonder how that happend???  The dipper that came with the dies and the chart that came with them will be on the lower end and work as indicated  but not much good for experimentation.  I suggest you take Scibaer up on his generous offer.  The Lee scales are as accurate as any.

Quote
Anyway, what kind of powder is Varget
Varget is an excellent, very versatile powder. I was using it just yesterday afternoon with some 70gr 243.  Shot well but had a 3' diameter fireball out of the son's 18" barrel.

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Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: Varget Question
« Reply #8 on: December 28, 2009, 03:39:24 AM »
Everyone seems to have covered the scales already . I shoot the 150's in both rifles and it works well on deer . Most all my 30-30 shots are under 75 yards . If  longer range was involved for the 30-30 say more than 125 or so the 170 may retain energy more . With the 06 any bullet from 125 up will take deer if you do your part.
 I just started using Varget because i could not get winchester powder and find it is a good choice . It seems to be very accurate .
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline KeepTryin

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Re: Varget Question
« Reply #9 on: December 28, 2009, 05:22:01 AM »
Thanks all! mjbgalt, yes I am new to this and am trying my best to be cautious. necchi, I'm using a Lee hand press and two sets of their progressive dies. Dippers came with the dies. I've found cranking on the .06 brass is a decent upper body workout...

ButlerFord45, I will hasten to get a reloading manual or two. Thanks. From what I've read the dippers are conservative as you say, and what I'm trying to do here is economically reload some hunting/plinking rounds for average use. That won't blow my gun/me up. So I'm taking things slow and asking a lot of questions, hope I'm not alarming anyone.

And as soon as I figure out how the PM feature works on here, I will take the generous gentleman who offered me a Lee scale up on his offer! It sure sounds like having the ability to weigh charges is very important.

I forgot about 170's holding energy longer downrange. Must reconsider and think about this some more. So much to learn...

Happy Monday and Thanks Again All!
Trying

Offline Darrell Davis

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Re: Varget Question
« Reply #10 on: December 28, 2009, 05:28:06 AM »
Morn'in,

A bullet which is optimum for a 30/30 will not be optimum for the 30/06!

That is the best reason I can think of for not using the same bullet for both rifles.

If you are shooting a lever action in the 30/30, unless using one of the new Hornady bullets, you will need to be using a flat point bullet.

Why have an 06 and then handicap it with a bullet designed for 30/30 velocities? You may as well sell the 30/06 and just hunt with the 30/30.

Optimum bullets for the 06 would be more in the range of 165gr, and with bullets designed for the higher velocities of the 06.  Just can't go wrong with a premium quality bullet for hunting!

As per dipping powders.  Well I have a set of the Lee dippers on my loading bench, but for the reason as others have already stated, of using them to dip charges onto the powder scales.

I know others disagree, and as such this is just IMHO, but I still remember the first and only time I ever saw someone using the Lee loader which comes in the little box (supply your own hammer!).

I thought at the time it was the worst rubegoldberg outfit I had ever seen and I haven't changed my mind 30 plus years later.

Take the offer of the "free scales" and side line that loading outfit ASAP, even if you must use a Lee press and dies.

Am I opinionated?  Yep!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  It comes from about 40 years of reloading and on a few attempts using second rate loading equipment, starting way back when with "Herters" Model perfect this and that junk.

Keep em coming!

CDOC
300 Winmag

Offline KeepTryin

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Re: Varget Question
« Reply #11 on: December 28, 2009, 02:30:48 PM »
Darrell Davis: thanks for the input, my rambling question may have obscured the fact that I wuz thinking about trying to keep things super simple as far as reloading (quite possibly a hopeless ideal) and that I planned on maybe getting by with one powder type for two calibers. This led to my questioning my choice of off-the-shelf bullet weights, but I would definetley be using different bullets for each-a flat-nose for the 30/30 and a pointed round for the 30/06. But running 150's in both to use the same powder, it was just an idea from someone who is not too informed just yet... but I've been learning a lot on here, thanks! FYI I came into possession of a Lee hand press and bought two die sets for it, all I've done so far is re-size and de-cap around 25 cases in each caliber so far. The bullet weight thing came about mostly cuz I saw the little sheets that came with the dies say that Varget would work (and exactly in the supplied dipper amount) for 150 jacketed bullets in either caliber, that is to say the 30/30 was listed as using 2.2 and the 30/06 3.4 in Varget so it seemed like a good idea for a minute there... but before I do anything much more reading/learning is in store.

Thanks for bearing with me guys
Tryin

Offline Darrell Davis

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Re: Varget Question
« Reply #12 on: December 28, 2009, 05:14:53 PM »
Hey there Keeptryin,

Don't you dare  >:( >:( let the word get out that it might be possible to load with a minimum of powder, primers, tools etc. etc. NO SIR!!

That gets out and our wives find out about it, probably just moments before they start checking out our supples of those items, and you are very likely to get a ride out of town at no charge, complete with tar and feathers!

That is, if the rest of us can get out of hiding long enough to come after you :) ;) :D ;D.

That kind of information in the wrong hands and you could single handly cause an economic slow down of epic proportions.

Then on the other hand, the secondary markets might suddenly spike with all the wives hosting yard sales to sell off our "un-needed" loading supplies.

Shame on  ::) you try'in to undo what we have so long tried to pass along as fact.

Seriously, If you can really figure out how to keep your stock of component supplies, loading equipment, loading manuals, record targets and cronograph sheets etc. etc. etc. from looking like the stock room of a sizable sporting goods, your doing better then most of us.

But then, on the other hand, I at least haven't tried.

You need to consider the "WOW factor of having all "that stuff.""

Anybody with all "that stuff" must really know what their do'in ::)!

And don't you dare spill the beans other wise, cause your already in enough hot water! ;)

Keep em coming!

CDOC

300 Winmag

Offline qajaq59

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Re: Varget Question
« Reply #13 on: December 29, 2009, 01:57:08 AM »
I would accept the scale and buy a manual. You'll be able to do more experimenting and likely end up with more accurate loads. And if the Lee is what you have, then use it. Sure beats buying commercial ammo

Offline 84Jim

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Re: Varget Question
« Reply #14 on: December 29, 2009, 03:15:45 AM »
Quote
Varget so it seemed like a good idea for a minute there...

It was, and still is, a good idea.  Varget is an excellant choice for the 2 calibers and bullet weights that you want to load.