Author Topic: .45/70 vs 500 S&W (Read 2456 times)

phatgemi · « **on:** December 14, 2009, 12:17:05 PM »

Always see tons of threads regarding the greatness of the .45/70. Seems that anyone without a .45/70 just doesnt have a complete set. I offer this thread not to start an arguement but just to get input. I have/had both the 500 and a 45/70. Ballistically, they are close enough in my book. Energy is very close throughout the choice of bullets, while I would say the 45/70 has an edge trajectory wise. I struggled which to keep and gear towards. The choice became clear with indiana's deer hunting regs. The 500 is legal for whitetail season and the 45/70 is not. Factory ammo is more expensive for the 500 but since i reload, that cost is negligible. So for some of us, the 500 is a viable tool where the 45/70 would not be.

In any case, while all the talk rages about the 45/70, I sure didnt get a whole lot of interest in it when offered up. But I did finally connect and will make him a happy camper who can utilize it in better circumstances instead of me punching paper.

Mac11700 · « **Reply #1 on:** December 14, 2009, 12:37:12 PM »

Never loaded or shot a 500 Handi..but have dealt with the 45-70 in several different firearms..The 45-70 is hard to beat..Can't or won't say it can't be done..but there is just so much history and data on the cartridge..Will the 500 ever take over as king of the hill..Don't know..the 45-70 has a 100 years + running head start on it..and isn't slowing down a whole lot..

Mac

Spanky · « **Reply #2 on:** December 14, 2009, 12:43:04 PM »

The 500 seems to be one heck of a cartridge... no doubt about it. I think the biggest hurdle to it's success is the price of ammo. Since you reload that's not an issue. I wouldn't say either one is a better game cartridge... they are both very capable of taking anything that wiggles. Like Mac says though... the 500 has alot of catching up to do if it wants to oust the old warhorse.

Spanky

manatee1947 · « **Reply #3 on:** December 14, 2009, 02:01:54 PM »

45/70 has a lot more bullets available, more versatile. The 500 has heavier brass, would probably last longer. Both should be real game getters.

petemi · « **Reply #4 on:** December 14, 2009, 02:13:11 PM »

I don't know if it really means anything, and I haven't made a study of it, but browsing the classifieds, there seems to be a lot more .500 guns, barrels, etc. listed as compared to the .45-70. Does that mean folks have tried them and aren't happy? Recoil, price of ammo, etc.??

Pete

wreckhog · « **Reply #5 on:** December 14, 2009, 02:25:03 PM »

I get the sense that 90% of the Handi 45-70 folks are shooting light trapdoor loads happily, accurately and even effectively on game. .500 seems more of a maximum recoil deal. If they had some light loads, might help the cause. Plus you can get jacketed 45-70 bullets (components) for a little as a quarter each. Not too shabby compared to the .500.

Looking at the PSI in reloading manuals, I feel like the 45-70 is a miracle cartridge. Makes the Hornet look like Weatherby magnum. Heck, I might just throw my barrel on an SB1 and do some plinking. Can't do that with a .500

Swampman · « **Reply #6 on:** December 14, 2009, 02:49:06 PM »

IMO the .500S&W is harder on barrel lugs & scopes. I'd still like to get one.

phatgemi · « **Reply #7 on:** December 14, 2009, 02:49:44 PM »

Quote from: wreckhog on December 14, 2009, 02:25:03 PM

I get the sense that 90% of the Handi 45-70 folks are shooting light trapdoor loads happily, accurately and even effectively on game. .500 seems more of a maximum recoil deal. If they had some light loads, might help the cause. Plus you can get jacketed 45-70 bullets (components) for a little as a quarter each. Not too shabby compared to the .500.

Looking at the PSI in reloading manuals, I feel like the 45-70 is a miracle cartridge. Makes the Hornet look like Weatherby magnum. Heck, I might just throw my barrel on an SB1 and do some plinking. Can't do that with a .500

Valid points. But consider that you can buy 400 gr cast bullets for the 500 for about 18 cents each and loaded light with about 12 grains of trail boss gives about 1000 fps. Should be a gread plinking load. Hard to beat those prices. I'm going to try some.

rsilvers · « **Reply #8 on:** January 05, 2010, 04:35:47 PM »

Where does one find the 18 cent cast bullets? They seem to be 25 - 30 cents and up.

phatgemi · « **Reply #9 on:** January 05, 2010, 05:38:43 PM »

I just bought 200 400gr cast .501 bullets from Missouri bullet Company for 36.00 which is 18 cents each. with shipping it did bring it up to about 23 cents but still quite reasonable. Loading up with the trailboss will make some nice cheap practice rounds. Much better than commerical!!!!

26-t · « **Reply #10 on:** January 05, 2010, 05:39:54 PM »

Cast your own. Scrap lead, the only cost is the gas check at a nickel a pop.

rsilvers · « **Reply #11 on:** January 05, 2010, 05:58:12 PM »

Casting seems like it may lead to drain bamage.

briannmilewis · « **Reply #12 on:** January 05, 2010, 06:43:34 PM »

I have been researching future rifle purchases for me and my two teenage sons to go afield with. One son is small framed, the other is average, and there is me, large framed. I have been thinking I would like to go afield with three different rifles in three different power levels, smallest son toting the least powerful etc, other son the middle power and me the most power.

I think the 500 S&W is a perfect fit for a trio of rifles to take to the field - 357 Max, 445 Super Mag and 500 S&W. Cartridge lengths are about the same, and the 445 is about .070 caliber bigger than the 357 and so the 500 S&W is .070 caliber bigger than the 445. All cartridges can be downloaded for practice too, and we have ways to lessen the felt recoil.

I think it would be good to go afield with a trio of 444 Marlin, 460 S&W and a 45/70 also.

For what it is worth.

45-70.gov · « **Reply #13 on:** January 05, 2010, 07:04:37 PM »

45-70

already has 3 different loading levels

can do the same with the 500 tho

then you only need one mould to cast from

every one just has his own ammo

cwlongshot · « **Reply #14 on:** January 06, 2010, 12:22:38 AM »

I have both... for my money the 45-70 is superior in its versatility and history.

CW

hunman55 · « **Reply #15 on:** January 06, 2010, 01:01:40 AM »

This is a little off subject, but has anyone tried BP, Pyrodex, or 777 in the 500? Hunman55

6x6 elk · « **Reply #16 on:** January 06, 2010, 05:41:46 AM »

In Indiana we do not have a choice for Deer hunting. The case length on the 45-70 is too long to meet the regulations for a legal Deer hunting cartrige. I took 3 Deer last year with the 500 S&W using 400 gr. Platinum Tips. All 3 dropped in there tracks, and they were not spine shot. This cartridge is overkill for deer sized animals!!

miyata · « **Reply #17 on:** January 06, 2010, 09:19:11 AM »

Quote from: 6x6 elk on January 06, 2010, 05:41:46 AM

In Indiana we do not have a choice for Deer hunting. The case length on the 45-70 is too long to meet the regulations for a legal Deer hunting cartrige.

That's interesting... here we have a minimum cartridge length of 2" for Sambar Deer with a minimum calibre of .270 and minimum of 130gn projectiles.

So my .257 Weatherby Magnum is illegal.

phatgemi · « **Reply #18 on:** January 06, 2010, 09:46:22 AM »

Quote from: 6x6 elk on January 06, 2010, 05:41:46 AM

In Indiana we do not have a choice for Deer hunting. The case length on the 45-70 is too long to meet the regulations for a legal Deer hunting cartrige. I took 3 Deer last year with the 500 S&W using 400 gr. Platinum Tips. All 3 dropped in there tracks, and they were not spine shot. This cartridge is overkill for deer sized animals!!

This is exactly the point I was making in my original post. Indiana for years was a slug gun only state. Then they did authorize pistols a few years ago. Now they will allow rifles but the rifle must meet stringent requirements. The 500 s&w is legal, the 45/70 is not. 500 has a max case length of 1.6 and the 45/70 doesnt meet the requirement. Normal rifle calibers (i.e. the previous posters .257) are verbotten. Strange rules to be sure but we have to follow them. So the 500 is way better than a 45/70 for an indiana hunter.

Bigeasy · « **Reply #19 on:** January 06, 2010, 09:55:00 AM »

I have only shot one big game animal with a 45/70, and none with a .5oo mag. So, I may be wrong, but I am going to look at it from a handgunners perspective. When you hunt big game with a hard cast lead bullet (as many do with the 45/70), the two most important factors are a properly designed bullet - A large metplate, or sharp, full diameter shoulder like a Keith bullet so it cuts a full diameter hole, and bullet diameter - size of the hole.

Just as a .357 diameter Keith bullet is considered an inferior big game bullet compared to the same design bullet of .429, I would think the larger diameter of the .500 Mag would create superior performance on big game compared to the .45/70, all other factors (velocity, bullet weight) being roughly comparable.

Now when we start talking recoil, BC numbers for long range performance, availability of components, then that's a different ball of wax.

Larry

Old Fart · « **Reply #20 on:** January 06, 2010, 10:06:24 AM »

Quote from: rsilvers on January 05, 2010, 05:58:12 PM

Casting seems like it may lead to drain bamage.

Only if you are a fume sniffer. Do it outside and its plenty safe.

Quote from: 6x6 elk on January 06, 2010, 05:41:46 AM

In Indiana we do not have a choice for Deer hunting. The case length on the 45-70 is too long to meet the regulations for a legal Deer hunting cartrige. I took 3 Deer last year with the 500 S&W using 400 gr. Platinum Tips. All 3 dropped in there tracks, and they were not spine shot. This cartridge is overkill for deer sized animals!!

6X6 seems like it's a no brainer for you.

One thing the 45-70 will always have going for it is nostalga.
It's just one of those old romantic rounds everyone like to owm.
Perhaps some day the 500 will have this allure.