Author Topic: Help out a 1911 newbie?  (Read 536 times)

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Offline Jay, Tx

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Help out a 1911 newbie?
« on: January 14, 2010, 04:55:26 PM »
OK, So I picked up an older Colt 1911 a few weeks back. It looks to be just a standard military type pistol with a few little extras added on. It's got a mag-well on it, and a replacement system for the mainspring that returns the slide (was called a "buffer system" by the previous owner). Forgive my referrence names. I'm sure they are incorrect, correct me on the proper terminology and I'll refer to them as such in the future.

Anyway, the slide is cracked on the oposite side from the ejection port. It was before, had been welded, and is cracked again. I got the pistol for a very good price even though it needs a new slide.

I'm wanting to replce the slide, obviously, and make a few other mod's while I'm at it. Things like Ambi-safety, beaver tail rear safety, commander style hammer, better trigger, etc. Basically want a semi-custom gun.

What I'm wondering is....Since I'm replacing the slide anyway, what all is involved in converting this pistol to a commander 9shorter) style gun? Can I do this by just replacing the upper parts? Or will it require mod's to the frame itself?

I have Jerry Keuhnhausen's book "The US M1911/M1911A1 Pistols" (volume II of the series) on the way. I have a good friend who is a machinist. And a lot of time & patience to complete this project. Will be doing everything I can myself.

Thanks for any insight or advice,
                                           Jay

Tolerance is the virtue of a man without convictions.

Offline Flint

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Re: Help out a 1911 newbie?
« Reply #1 on: January 14, 2010, 07:17:20 PM »
The Commander frame is different.  The face in the frame that the recoil spring guide fits against, and which the slide stops against in recoil, is a bit further to the rear than on the 5 inch govt model, to give the slide a bit more travel, since it's short, and more room for the coils of the recoil spring when it's compressed.  The dust cover (The part of the frame surrounding the recoil spring) does not reach as far forward on the Commander, as the slide is shorter.  A Govt slide on a Commander frame will expose about a quarter inch of recoil spring.

I have shot Commander slides on a Govt frame, and they work, but the factory frame is different.  The ejector is also different, it projects a bit forward to catch the cartridge rim sooner upon the slide opening.
Flint, SASS 976, NRA Life

Offline williamlayton

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Re: Help out a 1911 newbie?
« Reply #2 on: January 14, 2010, 10:09:37 PM »
YUP!
It is a good project you consider.
It is more than approaches your mind at this time. A good Smith is a machinest but a Godd machinist is not necessarily a Smith.
Why don't you just get a new slide from someone like Caspian--have it cut to the sights you want, have all that you want done to it made that way and install it with all the parts you want on it.
You have a new Gov. model  1911.
Now, let us look at some other things to consider.
What cause the crack? Hot loads? Much shooting? Wrong springs? Bad slide? A combination of all of the above?
I am convinced, from my studies, that bad slides are in a minority of the causes--but they can be in this case.
Was the weapon worked on by someone that did something to the slide that caused the slide to fail---maybe! Maybe not!
Volume should not be the culprit.
Too weak of a spring? Can be; it causes a lot of stress on recoil. Just as strong springs can cause malfunction.
Hot loads would be my first choice, along with improper springs and poor Smithing.
Learn from what the weapon tells you.
Get a new Caspian slide is the bottom line.
Blessings   
TEXAS, by GOD

Offline Mikey

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Re: Help out a 1911 newbie?
« Reply #3 on: January 15, 2010, 12:23:18 AM »
Jay:  pick up the latest copy of the Shotgun News and find teh SAMCO or SARCO pages - one of them sells 1911 45 slides and I believe the other sells complete upper assemblies. 

I would not reweld a slide that has cracked twice, period.  Get a new one.  If you want a commander length and weight pistol, get one - the new S&W Scandium 1911s fit that bill for me. 

If you want to trick it out the gov't model a bit then I suggest:  a Kings drop in beavertail grip safety, a Chip McCormick hammer, trigger and sear group, or whatever it is called and use those parts.  You will have to find your ambidexterous safety on your own but maybe McCormick makes one.

My suggestion - get a new S&W Scandium 'Commander' length 1911 and use that as a template to rehab that old Colt - shoot the older one and carry the lighter one.  jmtcw.

Offline Jay, Tx

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Re: Help out a 1911 newbie?
« Reply #4 on: January 15, 2010, 03:16:56 PM »
Thanks fellas,

I had no intention of re-welding the slide. I would have never done it the first time. As to why it cracked, I can only guess. The fella I got it from has since passed away. So no insight there.  My guess is, that someone did some port work on it and got overzealous, or they were loading it a little warm. Just as williamlayton said. Either one, or both. The fact is, it's junk now and will be relegated to the scrap pile. The only reason I haven't scraped it yet is because it's a pretty good holder for all the parts it contains.

As to the differences in the frame itself, I figured they might be a little different. That's why I asked. I guess once I get the book here, I can see the dimensional differnces and decide whether I want to commander bad enough to start mod'ing the frame.

I had been looking at the caspian slides. Also had seen the myriad of accessory parts available from all of the different manufacturers. The ambi-safety is something I want/need, since I'm a lefty. Too bad I haven't found someone that has found a way to do an ambi-slide stop, yet. It's not that hard to reach, but is un-natural to the feel. But I've fought this on every semi-auto I've ever owned, so I guess it's not a huge hurdle.

I totally respect the fact that a good machinist is not necessarily a good smith. Any other pistol, without the wealth of information readily available, would be getting sent off to a specialist to get done the way I want it. But I like a challenge, and a good project now and then. I have an ability to read diagrams well, follow instructions to the last detail, the patience to see it's done right, and the common sense to seek help if I don't have the ability to complete a portion of the task myself. I am also willing to buy the necessary tooling to see that this job get's done without assuming things, and without letting myself get into a dangerous situation. As for the tooling costs...I'm not too awfully worried here. As if/when this one turns out to be a success, I might just seek out another junker to rehab. Kinda thought it might could develop into a hobby in the future. And who knows, it might be one that could turn a dollar. Although I know "hobbies" usually don't.

I'm not trying to minimize the work or knowledge that it takes to complete what I'm wanting to do. I know, like anything else, that it takes loads of experience and wisdom in anything to become a master at it. And I'd certainly be willing to apprentice under a master to learn what I want and do it myself. Unfortunately I do not have the master available to teach me. So as I see it, as I have with things I have become proficient at in the past, some things must be self taught, to a degree. Beyond all that, I also find great pride in completing a task, such as this, which most people would never think of undertaking on their own. But then again, I'm not completely without help. As long as I can bounce questions, sometimes even seemingly dumb ones, off of people out there/here who have that experience I seek. Ain't the WWW great?

Mikey,
Thanks for the suggestion on the parts. I'll look into McKormick. Don't know that I've seem that manufacturer yet. As for getting another pistol to use for a template, I don't think that's gonna be possible at this time. I'm not so against the longer model that I could wait on getting a commander later, if ever. Just thought if it's a do-able thing now, why wait? Just do it to this one since there will be a good amount of parts bought and work performed anyway.
Tolerance is the virtue of a man without convictions.