Deer in 2F?

[Star1pup]

We usedto see a lot of deer near Kane before the antler restriction, but seldom see even a doe these days.  How about the rest of you who hunt that area?  What did you see and/or shoot this year?  I'm just curious.

[Wyo. Coyote Hunter]

  Star, I have heard this story from all over Pa. when I visited there for about a mth. During deer season, I often met my gal and we went some where for lunch...Or went out in the eve. for supper.. It was the same all over. No deer. I lucked into a pocket, but one of my college buddies a lifelong res. of Pa. hunted two weeks and shot one doe, a  small one at that. Since I moved, I have little say in what goes on there now, but if it were still home I would be howling mad at the A...H... that are on the game comm......Hunters were sold down the river in this deal....

[84Jim]

I did most of my hunting in Washington County.  Had a chance to do some bow hunting since I've been off of work.  Saw 2 nice shooter bucks, and at least 5 different smaller bucks less than 4 on a side.  Shot a nice doe on Monday of the last week of archery.  Couldn't find any of those bucks during rifle season.  Maybe saw fewer deer than a couple of years ago, but...

C'mon guys, do you really think that the antler restrictions have changed the entire PA deer herd in less than 10 years?  I don't know where you hunt, but where I go habitat, and the available food for deer, has changed noticibly in my lifetime.  The second cut timbering in the big woods has grown back so there is no undergrowth and the tree huggers have curtailed new timbering on state property.  Big open woods can only support so many deer, and thats what you have now.  The abandoned family farms in the southwest parts of the state that occurred in the 60's and 70's are reverting back to fairly open woods now.  Places that I hunted 20 years ago and had to crawl through on my hands and knees now can be walked through pretty easily.  Several farms around here used to plant corn, but stopped doing that years ago.  Houses are popping up in some of my favorite places to hunt.  Once again, the land can only support so many deer.  I give the PGC biologists some credit for knowing how many deer an area can support and issuing doe licenses accordingly.

I think hunting pressure has changed alot also.  Not nearly as many hunters as there used to be.  Patches of woods that used to be full of hunters on opening day I now have to myself.  People move deer, and without that you just don't see as many. 

So were we sold down the road?  I don't think so.  But the glory days are definately over.  Maybe fewer deer, but there are more big bucks now than before in my opinion.  I shot the 2 biggest bucks of my 47 year hunting career in 2005 and 2006.  You can still find doe if thats your game, but you have to hunt for them.  I did hunt bear up in Elk County this year.  There might be more bear up there than deer!  However, I did see a herd of 6 does, 3 older doe with 3 yearlings.  They looked healthy, but the fact that they only had one fawn apiece told me something, and that is conditions aren't the best. 

[Wyo. Coyote Hunter]

 :-\You are right about the state lands not having the trees harvested, but when they do cut that is area is fenced with 10 foot fence to keep the deer out... They are managing the state land for  trees and money not the public or wildlife...Also there are miles of state game lands in Northern Pa. that need  cut.  This is land for hunters and game. But the good old crooks in the game comm. are keeping this timber for the $ they can stuff in "their pockets" This hard wood is valuable stuff...The game lands up north are definately not being managed for the game in Pa. As for your condintions in Washington Co. That may well be true, I am not familiar with that area.. But in the country I am familiar with timber is cut, there is heavy covery, old strip mines, fields, some crops.  It is perfect deer cover...I am not saying the antler restrictions ruined the deer hunting, the two week doe season did it in. That was the sell out to the insurance companies...If the doe season were put after the buck season, far fewer does would be killed. Then with the antler restrictions we would have lots of deer and lots of bucks. I really don't favor the antler restrictions, but it was the game comm. way of selling this program to those few who hunt for horns. Bow hunters love it because they get to hunt the rut. It would be more ethical to have bow season in early Oct. than during the rut...I guess how I feel is the ego of trophy hunters enabled the comm. to sell this program. But I guess it wasn't sold to the public in good old Nazi fashion they were told this is how it is...

[84Jim]

Wyo,

I lucked into a pocket

Was that the heavy cover, some crops area?  If so, it sounds like you are a savvy hunter, looking for places that have deer rather than going back to the same dead zone and complaining year after year.  I checked out one of my old haunts down in Greene County this year.  They have totally quit farming in a several thousand acre tract, and the old hayfields are growing back.  Talked to a local and they shot several trophy bucks this year.  I plan to start going back there next year.  It'll be a jungle, but thats what they like.

I'm with you on the doe season.  I used to like it when it was the seperate 3 day season.  Like another opening day when you knew you'd get some shooting.  But I guess the biologists think we need to kill more deer.  We'll never agree on that when the deer are scarce.

I'm glad you reminded me of the fences.  Guess what, some people are saying that the deer are so hungry that they eat every small tree that starts to grow.  I believe them!  I grow pine trees that I used to sell for Christmas trees before they got too big.  Started to plant them in 1984, and bought 1000 white pine seedlings in 1985.  Planted most of them that year, hilled in the rest for the winter and planted the survivors in 1986.  Every one of them grew and are now beautiful trees 25 ft. or so tall.  About 1995 or so I decided to plant more trees to keep the Christmas tree business going.  I planted some more white pines and fraiser firs in the next couple of years.  Guess what, the deer ate every one of them (actually there is 1 spindley white pine that survived).  I figure deer don't normally eat pines unless they are pretty hungry.  Wish I could have put up a fence.

Not to mention coyotes.  I never heard them howling around here until about 2 years ago.  My son kicked out one while putting on a drive last Saturday.  You need to come back and start killing them buggers

[av-doctor]

i started hunting in 1995,i remember when you would walk off the road 50yds and jump 10 or 15 deer,yeah it was nice but they were small unhealthy looking things made you feel bad for killing it. its true we have less deer (some would say alot less) but the ones we have are healthy mature deer. The complaints i hear are from older hunters who have sat in the same spot for 30yrs not seeing deer. we still have plenty of deer we just have to get out and look for them.

[Wyo. Coyote Hunter]

  I have shot deer in Penna. for years. Almost 50, there always were big healthy deer in our area..Now the northern counties may have had a problem with deer not having enough food, but did the game comm. do anything on the the game lands to improve it...no they just sold more deer lic. and killed the few deer off that were able to survive.. Before this deer season we have now, I saw some hogs for bucks...Now I think there are more 6 and 8 pt. deer, but if you have studied anything about game management, you do NOT want the big mature bucks killed...they should be left to breed the does and create a healthy deer herd..They have been doing this in Europe for a 500 years...Now I don't want that system..But here in Am. in Wy. they have units that the ranches whined ;until a 4 point per side min. was put in..They had it for 10-15 years, now those units are over flowing with scrub bucks..2x4' 3x4's scrubby little thin racks due to inferior bucks breeding the does. Habitate and food are keys, and the insurance industry...With an increase in deer numbers we would have more bucks and does, but the insurance people wanted them all exterminated so they only collect money and never have to pay..

[av-doctor]

a buck does not reach maturity till 3 1/2 to 4 1/2 yrs of age. before Gary Alt pushed to change the laws only 1 out of 1000 bucks made it to maturity! That was the reason behind antler restrictions plain and simple. As far as does at one point it was estimated that the buck to doe ratio was 25 to 1 which is way out of balance!! check with your ranchers in Texas and Wyoming and see what they keep theirs at i'd bet it is more like 1 to 1 or 2 to 1. That said, Did they try to balance it correctly? thats a whole other question in its self, Does it matter now? Not really. What does matter how do we as hunters fix it? If you want more does in your area buy a tag and burn it! Heres the problem with management of wildlife in ( as i see it) you will NEVER please everyone no matter how hard you try! I credit Gary Alt for being brave enough to attempt it (management) in PA.  Please continue this conversation i understand your frustration i too will go without venison this winter but i'm fine with it because i know all the does that i passed on this year will have fawns in the spring.

[Dakota30.06]

I hunt 2F in Farmington Township (clarion county) I'm only 23 years old...so obviously i dont remember hunting 30 years ago when you'd see 50 deer in a day. All i know is that over the past 5 years I have seen more "racks" than ever before. The bucks hanging on the walls of our camp from 1985 to 2005 were as follows: three 3 pointers, and a 4 pointer. Since 2005 we've shot a five pointer, one seven pointer, 2 eight pointers...and lost a huge 8 get away last year  I'm not one to defend the game comm...I think they're crooks just tryin to make an extra buck...that being said I cant deny that we've had more chances at bigger bucks recently.

The part that's tough is going three or four days only seeing 2 deer waiting for a decent buck to come by.