Author Topic: Alabama LEO's caught on tape beating a man (Read 1275 times)

Cabin4 · « **on:** January 27, 2010, 05:53:03 PM »

Here's a good one. LEO's beating a guy that was involved in a car chase, crashed and then ejected from his car. The LEO's in hot pursuit, beat the guy while he is laying on the ground out cold.
http://blog.al.com/spotnews/2010/01/hoover_seeks_dismissal_of_fede.html

Graybeard · « **Reply #1 on:** January 27, 2010, 05:58:26 PM »

Link didn't open, will try again later maybe.

Likely old news tho. I think this happened way back if it's the one I think but since it wouldn't open I can't be sure.

Questor · « **Reply #2 on:** January 27, 2010, 06:14:34 PM »

Considering that the driver nearly killed the cop who was lucky enough to barely jump out of the way of the man's car, it's entirely appropriate for the criminal to be subdued in an authoritative manner. The only inappropriate thing I see in the video is that the police should have used shotguns or similar devices at a distance because they were endangering themselves by rushing the man like that.

Questor · « **Reply #3 on:** January 27, 2010, 06:18:28 PM »

Here, GB, for those of you with primitive computing equipment, is the substantial excerpt from the article

In today's filing in U.S. District Court at Birmingham, Hoover says the complaint against it and Sgt. Norm McDuffy should be thrown out because, among other reasons, Warren's complaint fails to state a valid claim upon which relief can be granted. A brief filed in support of the motion says that McDuffy couldn't have conspired with the Birmingham officers, as Warren claims, because he did not communicate with them.

McDuffy is also immune from suit because he was acting in an official capacity, the filing said.

"There can be no dispute that Sergeant McDuffy acted within the scope of his authority as a Hoover police officer when copying the videotape," Hoover's brief said. "Moreover, the facts as alleged by the plaintiff do not give rise to a constitutional violation."

In January 2008, a Birmingham police officer tried to question Anthony Warren about possible drug activity. In the subsequent 22-minute car chase, Warren struck a Hoover police officer with his van and then was thrown from his van as it crashed. Authorities said Warren was unconscious when the officers began kicking him and beating him with a billy club and fists. Warren filed a lawsuit in federal district court in Birmingham alleging unnecessary and excessive force.

The police video was recording until an officer turned off the lights and siren in the cruiser that held the camera, automatically shutting off the camera. Warren was charged with attempted murder of the Hoover officer, but later pleaded guilty to first-degree assault and is serving a 20-year sentence.

Graybeard · « **Reply #4 on:** January 27, 2010, 06:32:13 PM »

It opened that time for me. I'd say the officers were out of line in what they did. He was clearly lying unconscious after being thrown from the vehicle when it rolled. Beating him was totally out of line but very typical of the cops in the area. Not at all surprising. He did give them a lot of cause to want him but lying there totally unconscious and of no danger to them any longer they should have only arrested him.

Dunno what he's guilty of but I hope he gets his due for it. I also hope the abusive officers get their just due and are removed from the force. Folks like them are what gives police a bad reputation and should not be on the force.

BTW Rudy my computer is far from primitive and in fact might be more powerful than you have unless yours is quite new. At the time it was state of the art and uses a 64 bit OS. It's hooked to high speed internet.

But the OS is a bit quirky at times. I'm still not sure what's going on but I think it's the protection software I have installed. Some times it just is not gonna have any part of opening a new window. I'm not sure if it sees a threat or thinks it does or is just being stubborn cuz I won't let it have a firewall it wants.

Most of the time it opens fine the next time I try it.

This wasn't the same incident I was talking about but is same general area and same basic situation. Again in that one they beat the crap out of the guy for no good reason at all or at least their timing of it let's say was totally inappropriate. Once a subject is totally subdued and of no threat being out cold as a cucumber it's too late then to begin beating the hell out of him.

mirage1988 · « **Reply #5 on:** January 27, 2010, 06:46:04 PM »

The cops have a tough job, don't make it harder!

Questor · « **Reply #6 on:** January 27, 2010, 06:49:10 PM »

I give the cops the benefit of the doubt in a case like this because a 22 minute car chase including a hit and run collision with a cop like that is going to make anybody charged with adrenaline. Objectively the cops may have responded with unnecessary force at the end of that chase, but they're human, and it's natural that they would react that way. Training doesn't override something as powerful as that kind of experience. I probably would have done the same thing, and I have no interest in hurting anybody. I'm surprised the guy survived the crash.

What's not shown is the technique used by the cops to ease up behind a car and rake it's rear quarter with the patrol car. With the right technique, it's amazingly easy to flip a car like that. I don't think it was excessive to make the crook's car crash like that, and if the crook had died because of the crash, there would have been no hullaballoo about excessive force by the cops.

alsaqr · « **Reply #7 on:** January 28, 2010, 01:38:49 AM »

This scumbag is likely to walk because of the over-reaction by the police: He will become a folk hero. This is tragic because the scumbag almost killed a cop.

billy_56081 · « **Reply #8 on:** January 28, 2010, 01:44:31 AM »

To bad the POS didn't die. If I were on the jury for the civil suit I would not give that guy anything.

MGMorden · « **Reply #9 on:** January 28, 2010, 02:24:55 AM »

Their overreaction may be somewhat understandable, but it wasn't justified. The reality is the cops job is to apprehend and detain him. Guilt is to be determined by a jury, and if he's guilty then punishment is to be handed down by the judge. That's the way it works. That's the way it MUST work. Lady Justice is portrayed wearing a blindfold because emotion is not supposed to enter into this process.

That doesn't mean that the person here is any less guilty though. This action didn't present any new evidence. The criminal should receive the same trial and sentence he would have otherwise gotten (he certainly shouldn't get off over this), but the cops should be properly punished too. There are good cops and there are bad cops out there, and properly punishing those that step over the line makes sure that we keep the number of bad cops in check.

I'm about to leave for work but I need to dig up footage from a similar incident here. It wasn't actually caught on tape, but here in SC an officer brought in a woman on DUI charges. She was in the station. He walked over to the surveillance camera and turned it off. When he turned it back on the woman was lying there beat badly.

EDIT: Turns out the above incident that I mentioned about the cop turning off the camera wasn't local. I had thought it was since I remembered seeing it on the local news. Here's the video of it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PvF9Kpwuxh0
In this case, like many others, the woman WAS acting out badly, but in a position of authority you HAVE to learn to hold your temper.

jimster · « **Reply #10 on:** January 28, 2010, 02:52:50 AM »

Oh c'mon...none of us argue that copes have a hard job, none of us argue that he almost killed a cop there speeding through there.

Running up there to someone out cold and hitting him in the face several times with a fist, while totally out cold is something that is not justifiable and makes the entire bunch of cops in that area look like a bunch of idiots. Why waste all that energy on someone out colder than a cucumber? If someone can't control their temper, they have no business being a cop, or carrying a gun...period. Anger management class?

"The cops have a tough job, don't make it harder!"

Those cops make their jobs harder all by themselves...I can't imagine anyone stupid enough to run up to someone out cold and start beating them with all the video camera stuff on cop cars these days.
If you going to act like a complete idiot...turn off the camera first.

beerbelly · « **Reply #11 on:** January 28, 2010, 03:01:58 AM »

If they can do it to him, they can do it to you!
Beerbelly

Cabin4 · « **Reply #12 on:** January 28, 2010, 04:54:43 AM »

The cops over reaction will likely result in the charges against this guy ultimately being dropped and a civil law case that will be settled for a few hundred thousand dollars of tax payer money. And for that alone, these stupid cops deserve to be thrown off the force. The guy was clearly evading capture and all they had to do was throw the cuffs on him, case closed and a criminal off the streets and behind bars as he belongs. Instead, because of a bunch of immature, overzealous idiot cops, the public gets no justice and a criminal becomes a rich man at the expense of the public who he harmed.

rockbilly · « **Reply #13 on:** January 28, 2010, 05:34:08 AM »

It’s easy to prejudge a case such as this when you were not involved in the chase and events surrounding the stop. I’m sure after the chase and near death of several cops the others adrenalin was rushing, they acted on impulse. Did the cops know the individual was out cold when the beating started?

Personally, I have little or no compassion for those that break the law, most often they get their just deserve. Does anyone honestly think he would have been beaten had he responded accordingly when the Cops turned their lights on? I think not.

As for the comment, “if it happens to him it can happen to you.” Agreed if you elected to do as he did, but one of prudent judgment would not have acted in this manner, they would have STOPED!

Cabin4 · « **Reply #14 on:** January 28, 2010, 05:45:09 AM »

Or maybe even good people will run from the cops in fear of being beaten after seeing this video!

I'm not sure what prejudging you’re talking about. We are all now a witness to the cops poor actions on video tape. The cops are not at war with the public. This is not a battle field in the ME. There are rules and they need to follow them just like we are suppose to. Because the guy decided to not pull over, that is a crime but it is not punishable by beating on the spot. If it is, I'd like to see the rules that say that.....??

rockbilly · « **Reply #15 on:** January 28, 2010, 08:55:09 AM »

Cabin4. How about the case where a Texas DPS Officer approached a drug dealer along a lonely stretch of highway after a long chase, similar to this one, he had been thrown from his vehicle when he crashed. He appeared to be seriously injured and unconscious. As the trooper approached, he rolled over and fired twice hitting the Officer in the groin area, the trooper almost bled to death as the perp drove off in the officer’s vehicle. Or how about the two Local LEOs that approached what they though was a person passed out after being hit by a vehicle following a domestic dispute. The person had also threatened to kill his wife and children. He appeared to be totally out, but as the officers approached he jumped up and killed both of them.

In my opinion we establish rule to maintain order, we hire officers to enforce those rules and when someone breaks the rules and disturbs that order all bets are off.

If you were stopped after attempting to evade the police for several miles would you expect them to greet you and compliment you on your driving abilities or would you expect them to yank you out of the vehicle and slam dunk you? Keep in mind you just put other members of society in harms way with your high speed erratic driving.

I’d be willing to bet, had this individual struck your wife’s vehicle and injured your child that you would have been on the sidelines applauding while they beat the crap out of him, regardless of his physical state. As for the prejudging, have you ever been involved in a high speed chase through a populated area? If not, you don’t know how you might react give the same circumstances.

How about it Dee, your opinion as an ex LEO.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #16 on:** January 28, 2010, 09:04:45 AM »

Don't ya'll just have all these cameras being every where ?

Cabin4 · « **Reply #17 on:** January 28, 2010, 10:20:29 AM »

Quote from: rockbilly on January 28, 2010, 08:55:09 AM

Cabin4. How about the case where a Texas DPS Officer approached a drug dealer along a lonely stretch of highway after a long chase, similar to this one, he had been thrown from his vehicle when he crashed. He appeared to be seriously injured and unconscious. As the trooper approached, he rolled over and fired twice hitting the Officer in the groin area, the trooper almost bled to death as the perp drove off in the officer’s vehicle. Or how about the two Local LEOs that approached what they though was a person passed out after being hit by a vehicle following a domestic dispute. The person had also threatened to kill his wife and children. He appeared to be totally out, but as the officers approached he jumped up and killed both of them.

In my opinion we establish rule to maintain order, we hire officers to enforce those rules and when someone breaks the rules and disturbs that order all bets are off.

If you were stopped after attempting to evade the police for several miles would you expect them to greet you and compliment you on your driving abilities or would you expect them to yank you out of the vehicle and slam dunk you? Keep in mind you just put other members of society in harms way with your high speed erratic driving.

I’d be willing to bet, had this individual struck your wife’s vehicle and injured your child that you would have been on the sidelines applauding while they beat the crap out of him, regardless of his physical state. As for the prejudging, have you ever been involved in a high speed chase through a populated area? If not, you don’t know how you might react give the same circumstances.

How about it Dee, your opinion as an ex LEO.

Show me in the video where the cops first tried to restrain the unconscious guy? To your point, it would have been more prudent for the cops to immediately gain control of the guy as opposed to beating him! Not restraining him left them open to him pulling a gun or knife in your example! I have no problem with the cops landing on the guy in an attempt to restrain him immediately. The cops failed to do this. Instead, they were more interested in punching the guy in pure anger as opposed to making sure he could not pull a weapon.

So to the very point you make, they were more exposed to the danger, not less exposed. These and to many other LEO's are just immature, arrogant blowhards that think their badge is a license to abuse people. Some LEO’s as they get older, moderate and learn from being immature and mend their ways. Some other will move on and advance to other higher level agencies. Others will continue this for their entire career and finally retire having thought that intimidating the public is what they were suppose to do.

When I lived in PA, I had a two neighbors in our sub division. One was a supervisor with the local police and the other was a former cop who moved on to the FBI. These guys did not care for each other. The cop was basically an arrogant demanding terd. The FBI guy was a respectful, level headed, even keel guy. His son my son were friends. He confided in me what drove him out of local police work and into the FBI. It wasn’t pretty stuff. I think this group of LEO’s in this video exemplify what he and I use to talk about.

The bottom line is there are good LEO’s and bad one just as in any line of work. In the arena of public trust, there is a standard and these guys don’t cut it.

nw_hunter · « **Reply #18 on:** January 28, 2010, 03:36:52 PM »

Quote from: Questor on January 27, 2010, 06:49:10 PM

I give the cops the benefit of the doubt in a case like this because a 22 minute car chase including a hit and run collision with a cop like that is going to make anybody charged with adrenaline. Objectively the cops may have responded with unnecessary force at the end of that chase, but they're human, and it's natural that they would react that way.

Benefit of the doubt!!!"No doubt about it" They were caught on film beating an unconscious man.
No doubt the man in question deserved his 20 years in prison! He was a scumbag, as some have said, but there is NO excuse for professional police officers acting out in the same way.

I see several scumbags in that video. We are a nation of laws, and those laws should apply to the ones that have the power to enforce them also............PERIOD!

beerbelly · « **Reply #19 on:** January 28, 2010, 04:41:46 PM »

The cops are not at war with the public.

THat is where you are wrong my friend!
Beerbelly

Cabin4 · « **Reply #20 on:** January 28, 2010, 05:22:48 PM »

Quote from: beerbelly on January 28, 2010, 04:41:46 PM

The cops are not at war with the public.

THat is where you are wrong my friend!
Beerbelly

I'm not suggesting all cops are at war with the public. Just some of the bad ones.

Graybeard · « **Reply #21 on:** January 28, 2010, 05:44:14 PM »

This was an old case from back in January 2008. By now most likely whatever is gonna happen to all involved has happened.

gypsyman · « **Reply #22 on:** January 28, 2010, 07:03:03 PM »

Have to go along with Cabin4 in post 12. These LE probably did more to hurt this case with their actions. The guy deserve's getting a good ''atitude adjustment''. But, with it being caught on camera, he'll probaly get a sizable chunk of money. gypsyman

beerbelly · « **Reply #23 on:** January 29, 2010, 02:11:51 AM »

The guy got 20 years and well deserved! But he is now suing the cities, they have said the cops did nothing wrong. I am sure it will be appealed for a few years and when he gets out of jail he will have a large bank account if the lawyers don't steal it all from him. which they likely will.
Beerbelly

Graybeard · « **Reply #24 on:** January 29, 2010, 02:48:50 AM »

I've not followed the case for a long time. Such things are really quite common around the B'ham area and Hoover is just a suburb of B'ham. They've had to fire lots of cops for abusing prisoners and had to pay out large sums in lawsuits as well.

I agree the guy is guilty as sin and needs to be given proper time for it but the officers seen beating him in the video need to be fired and perhaps given some jail time of their own. Sadly the city will likely have to pay out money to the scumbag for their actions but then that's what they get for hiring folks like that. They need a better screening process. They have way too many cops over there who like to abuse the power their badge gives them. I think half or more of them hired in that area become cops merely to get that badge and see it as their way to do anything they want.

Believe me when they are asked to come knock down doors to take guns from law abiding citizens they will be first in line to do so.

slim rem 7 · « **Reply #25 on:** January 29, 2010, 05:23:40 AM »

the man tried to kill the officer,with his car..gotta disaggree ..if a man tried to kill my friend id have to smack him a bit.. besides who knows if the guys playin possum.. many leo s have died due to thinking the offending perp was knocked out,only to get shot for his misjudgement..jmo of what i saw..slim

dukkillr · « **Reply #26 on:** January 29, 2010, 05:31:37 AM »

Quote from: slim rem 7 on January 29, 2010, 05:23:40 AM

the man tried to kill the officer,with his car..gotta disaggree ..if a man tried to kill my friend id have to smack him a bit.. besides who knows if the guys playin possum.. many leo s have died due to thinking the offending perp was knocked out,only to get shot for his misjudgement..jmo of what i saw..slim

If someone tried to kill your friend you wouldn't be held to the same standard because you are not trained and paid to control yourself in situations like these.

It amazing the length people will go to in order to defend poor police behavior. Obviously this person deserves to go to jail. Just as obviously, society expects more from those we trust to keep the peace.

rex6666 · « **Reply #27 on:** January 29, 2010, 05:41:34 AM »

Quote from: jimster on January 28, 2010, 02:52:50 AM

Oh c'mon...none of us argue that copes have a hard job, none of us argue that he almost killed a cop there speeding through there.

Running up there to someone out cold and hitting him in the face several times with a fist, while totally out cold is something that is not justifiable and makes the entire bunch of cops in that area look like a bunch of idiots. Why waste all that energy on someone out colder than a cucumber? If someone can't control their temper, they have no business being a cop, or carrying a gun...period. Anger management class?

"The cops have a tough job, don't make it harder!"

Those cops make their jobs harder all by themselves...I can't imagine anyone stupid enough to run up to someone out cold and start beating them with all the video camera stuff on cop cars these days.
If you going to act like a complete idiot...turn off the camera first.

+1
they are TRAINED officers, man out cold and this is their reaction!
I may have acted like that but that is why i am not a POLICE OFFICER

yellowtail3 · « **Reply #28 on:** January 31, 2010, 05:43:46 PM »

Quote from: Questor on January 27, 2010, 06:49:10 PM

I give the cops the benefit of the doubt in a case like this because a 22 minute car chase including a hit and run collision with a cop like that is going to make anybody charged with adrenaline.

benefit of the doubt? Ain't no doubt involved here - agents of the state brutalized a helpless man. If I did that to a cop, I'd be shot. If I did that to a fellow citizen, I'd be jailed.

I think what you're saying is that you want to give the cops who brutalized that man a pass.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #29 on:** February 02, 2010, 08:00:49 AM »

I know/worked with a guy that two undercover cops mistook for a suspect and beat him so bad he lost sight in one eye and several teeth.
It cost the county over a million dollars . Stuff like this should not happen . I was once taken and restrained by two police officers , they checked my ID , told me to stay in the stair well and then arrested a guy who had killed his wife a couple weeks before . I thought they did a good job .