Help Time a 6 gun a simple or deep Explanation -is all I need

[Tommyt]

Thats about it guys
I have a Seville and a Ruger or 2 That I've managed to take apart and put back again 
Not a Humpty Dumpty story 
However especially for the Seville I would like to know how most guns are timed
I know what Time IS but I don't know what a Gun Smith does to get the Gun Timed
I have my Ideas but I will hold back too hear from you guys
 Not dumb Questions just answers is my thought so
I have to ask even if y'all think I should know this(or Dumb ? )

Tommyt

[Rangr44]

Timing a revolver takes both special knowledge, experience, and tools - like a set of range rods in every caliber expected to work on ( .32/.38/.44/.45/etc ).

The range rod specific to the caliber of the revolver being timed is used by putting it downbore and trying to enter each chamber of the specimen cylinder from the front.
The rod lets the user know if just one or two chambers (and their attendent ratchet) are "off", or if the entire cylinder-ful is, indicating pawl & stop latch issues.

That's when the knowledge & experience kick in - a book's worth - making the proper corrections.

.

[Tommyt]

That is a good Explanation I applaud you very much
Now with what you said can you tell me if one or all
didn't match up how does the Gunsmith adjust or align this
Also I truly Thank you for that post I have been looking around the Net
on and Off for at least a month and Not one time did I ever see/read
about the rod you mention in relation to the Pawl Cylinder ratchet and stop Latch
in any combination
in those 4 or 5 sentences you told me more than the hours of
Lost in my mind and lost on the net ,I knew they all related Just how and why
Thank you really Thank you very much
Tommyt

takes both special knowledge, experience, and tools

Pretty much all 3 are one Each a tool

[gunnut69]

The complexity of the answer is also compounded by the variation among different makers as to shape of the ratchet teeth. A device is used which aligns a punch with the offending tooth which can then be peened in the needed direction to lengthen it's operating arc or shorten it as needed. Also remember the locking bolt should not be locking on the offending cylinder. If it is the notch is either a bit too large or short, again depending on the direction the correct movement was made to occur. Usually the hand wears and a new one is fitted. These are usually oversize and allow simple hard fitting. The problem with a hole or two not lining up is much more difficult to remedy and sometimes a new cylinder is the remedy of choice as bolt recesses become too large and bolts are not available that much oversize. The different makers also have differing action techniques. S&W's drop the bolt quicker and drag the cylinder until it falls. A Colt likes to lock up with the hand in tension on the ratchet. This can help a bit if things have loosened as the bolt is kept to the forward portion of it's locking notch but this action seems to wear a bit faster than the S&W. This refers to Colts double action models of course..

[Tommyt]

 

the locking bolt should not be locking on the offending cylinder

?

S&W's drop the bolt quicker and drag the cylinder until it falls

OK I have a USA Seville and due to NO longer such a Company Parts are rare to none
So far the timing is OK
The Problem is the Locking Bolt Spring ...It Broke the darn thing was made with Beryllium Copper
Moving Along I made one actually 3 or 4 some don't have enough Spring Tension ,These BTW are Flat Spring
a somewhat of a Flat then a 180% curve and this Curve is the Bolt Lock and Trigger Forward spring tension-er
I will attach Picture better than my Explanation, what concerns me is when you say DRAG When I put the Heavier
made spring the Cylinder Locks very well but the Bolt does Drag on the Cylinder Until it falls or Pushes itself into the Locking
Cuts on the cylinder ,With all this said does this sound OK ?  Do you Know of a Seville and maybe could tell me more
Believe it or not this is the first 6 gun That I have ever Looked into as far as function and the Learning curve has Got Me So stuck, I can't put it Away,not only love the gun I'm liking the education I'm getting, from getting to know it and it's Function
In fact all SA Gun Function has my interests,Please I cannot afford a Smith and Feel I can and will Learn all Needed to Keep this one up and running as New
I also have in the Making a Pawl ,However I may change Directions after reading your post
I was making it out of a piece of Stainless and now I'm thinking of a softer metal so the Pawl will give before the Cylinder ratchet
Thanks you for reading my Winded Post

Tommyt

[gunnut69]

I'm not really familiar with the Seville but the bolt spring you made is not what makes the bolt drag on the cylinder, its the timing of the bolt's release. The bolt is pulled from it's lock recess as the weapon is being cocked. After it is removed from the notch the pawl(hand) can move begin moving the cylinder. As soon as the cylinder's movment is such that the locking notch is clear the bolt can be dropped. The sooner it is dropped the longer the bolt will drag on the cylinder under tebsion from the bolt spring. In S&W revolvers this usually leaves a 'drag' ring on the cylinder. It really doesn't affect the revolvers performance but does indicate usage. This it seems is what you Seville is doing. This lock bolt timing is usuall controlled by the cam on the hammer that pushes down the bolt as it is cocked. If lockup is secure with no excessive tension on the bolt you built a new spring for this revolver.  Good luck hope we helped.. Of course I wonder why you're making a pawl? In most instances the pawls were not terribly hard and their life was extended by case hardening the wear surfaces.. Stainless is really tough but usually not too hard unless a high carbon knife type steel. Should work OK but I don't know how it will case harden or even if it can be/needs to be?

[Tommyt]

GN69
 
Thanks again yes you both helped more than you may realize and I appreciate it
why I am making a pawl is back-up replacement
The pawl in the gun now Upper Step part is not Square ? and I don't no if Square is right or wrong
It has one corner kinda angled off ,I have good pictures of it ,I have taken for another forum
but those guys said just about Zero ,all my questions where replied to with

See a Smith

Even when I would say I would just like to Know anyway here are some pictures to reply too
Or just Purely look
again I thanks you very much
Tom

[Tommyt]

[SHOOTALL]

For help with your springs check the IMHSA sites alot of folks shot those guns .

[gunnut69]

There is a bit of wear but as long as function hasn't been compromised I'd not change it out. There may be parts available for it. Have you checked the normal parts sources such as GunPartCorp? The ratchet appears good so that's a good thing. Replacing the ratchet(star) can be a real pain. Good luck. As to the other sight, some things are best left to a pro but many pro's got there by learning on their own guns. I started at 13 or so replacing the stock on an old 22 SS and cleaning a 550-1 Remington that was my fathers..

[Tommyt]

gunnut69
 
  You are correct and as I will more than likely never have the time to take smith schooling class or due to where I life
Spend time learning Hands on ,There is just no-one or they are not good
I fixed all but what I have now and I feel its the spring I made ,I actually put 2 one on top the other what I am now
seeing is the bolt stop is dragging as was stated about the Colts
Common sense tells me the spring is too much ,YOU think I maybe correct and another thought
Due to my un-educated and rushed, attempts with different spring tensions and even just holding the bolt with my fingers
while I tried to function the gun so I could better under stand the Makings
I made the Drag ring on the cylinder ,should I try tooth paste or anything to remove it
or live with the ring.

 Tom
T

[gunnut69]

As I said the mark made on the cylinder is not the fault of the spring other than the spring supplies the force. The cam on the hammer that releases the bolt is the culprit and is not really a viable thing to alter. If the spring tension Is too much then it may accelerate the mark but there is little one can do to stop it. Cold blue can touch it up but it will come back with any use at all. Build a spring that powers the bolt sufficiently but just barely/ This will minimize the marking. Good luck!