msha training

[243shooter]

i had to go to to my annual msha (mine safety and health administration) training today. your basic safety type training. i would like to start by saying that i'm all for safety and that without out some kind of an "administration" to enforce saftey the average work place probably wouldn't be as safe as they are now. i also know how most guys feel about osha and msha, whatever. the thing that bothered me was when the instuctor started talking about fines. i wish i could remember the numbers better, but basicly the fines that msha hands out have almost doubled every year since 2005. for example 2005 was about $25 million, 2006 was approaching $40 million, on to 2009 which i think was real close to $200 million (my numbers are off, but you get the idea, i also remember the instructor saying that the fines in december of 2009 were more than for the entire year of 2005). now, like i said we need something like osha and msha, but they are both way out of hand. some of these fines are of course justified, especailly when there's a fatallity involved, but these hugh fines for things like a loader opetator not wearing a seat belt or for some berm not quit high enough is rediculous. how is industry and the economy suppussed to grow with regulation like that.
     another thing that bothered me is i learned that individuals in the mine can also be fined, along with and as much as the company, for example, if i was a foreman and someone under me did something dumb and got hurt and the company got fined, i could get fined the same amount because i was in charge. if i worked in a mine full time i wouldn't even want that kind of responsability. also the guy driving the loader with no seat belt could also be fined along with the company, at least in that case it would be his own fault.
     i wish i could remeber more specifics, but i'm just a mechanic and most of the info didn't pertain to me. and was extremely boring. thanks for reading my rant. at the rate we're going nobody is going to want to do these jobs for fear of being fined to death.

[Sweetwater]

Agree it's like smacking a fly with a sledge hammer. I worked in the mines in Wyoming a little over 11 years and found those "annuals" near as boring for the instructors as for the miners. BUT, a necessary evil as you had to have that little piece of paper to work. Plain and simple. I knew a couple of safety guys who were really out to protect the miners, did a great job. Knew twice as many who simply enjoyed being there and not in a production job. I don't recall a personal fine given out by MSHA, though they did preach about them annually, and I saw a lot of company fines vacated or reduced with mediation or compliance. Guess not much that man dictates is cast in stone.

Yes, those are big numbers on the fines that stick. A wonder any of the small mines are still functioning. The big mines seem, to prosper in spite of themselves.

Regards,
Sweetwater

[milespb]

243, You are correct about the way the fines are. I've been in mining 32 years and have seen it happen a few times. Had a foreman that was electricuted on a hot rail on an overhead crane (He turned off the wrong breaker, 440V ) and he was fined as well as the company. They did manage to save his arm though. He grounded between his hand and elbow. My experience with MSHA in the last several years is that they do alot of barking  and little biting on some important issues like 104D2 citations.   BE SAFE                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                         What type of mine do you work at?  I am also told that the amount of the fine is based on the size of the company.

[243shooter]

i work for a black top and trucking company. a mechanic. i only have to go to the training in case something breaks down at the asphalt plant which is considered an above ground mine. i really don't know a whole lot about mining it just bugs me that when the economy is going in the toilet they just keep handing out fines, slowing it down even more. it's kinda like the cops around here, i used to rarely see a cop on the way to work, but for the last year to year and a half i almost always see one (or more) every morning and every night waiting for speeders. i usually don't have a problem cause i don't speed on purpose, but they know times are tough and that the people that are still driving to work have probably had their hours or wages cut and the cops gotta be out there trying to stick it to you also. i don't expect a free pass, but you wouldn't think they'd have to step it up right now.