Author Topic: CCI CB & Aquila's vs Air rifle  (Read 2828 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline bckskin2

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Avid Poster
  • **
  • Posts: 247
CCI CB & Aquila's vs Air rifle
« on: October 15, 2009, 11:27:43 AM »
I tried some of the Super Coliberi in my Savage singe shot and was impressed. The CCI CB's are pretty quiet too. Has any one ever tested them side by side with a good air rifle? The Super Coliberi out penetrated my little Crossman & made a bigger hole. I would like to do some serious groups if I ever get time. Both are a PAIN in my 10/22, but work great thru my old Savage or Duramatic.
Any one try any other brands of CB's?
Jerry

Offline j104wd

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Avid Poster
  • **
  • Posts: 108
Re: CCI CB & Aquila's vs Air rifle
« Reply #1 on: October 15, 2009, 04:11:00 PM »
I use the cci cb longs instead of my air rifle, just as quite and more accurate. I shoot them out of my bolt action marlin.

Offline rio grande

  • Trade Count: (39)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1205
Re: CCI CB & Aquila's vs Air rifle
« Reply #2 on: October 15, 2009, 05:14:30 PM »
seems like the colibris etc. and the cb longs are a better idea than an air rifle in several ways - more power, more versatility (can shoot .22 lr also). 

minuses are 1) the legal issues of a 'firearm' compared to air rifle/ prohibitions, registration,  etc. 2) the .22 rim fires are more expensive (air is free) and can't be swaged or cast as pellets can. 

I guess like always, there's no perfect answer.  Get an air rifle AND a .22 rimfire if you can.
If I could only have one....that would be a toss-up.

PS   The cb longs worked fine when operated manually in my 10-22.


Offline bckskin2

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Avid Poster
  • **
  • Posts: 247
Re: CCI CB & Aquila's vs Air rifle
« Reply #3 on: October 16, 2009, 04:23:04 AM »
I'll have to try the CB longs. The Aquila's wont feed. The CB's I had triedd was opening the action just enough to jam it.
I live in the country so legal issues aren't a problem, but the horses & ponies don't like the noise of the full power .22's and it's getting built up enough that I have to be really careful with a full power .22. Always a good idea any way.
Jerry

Offline iiranger

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 491
Slide rule... Re: CCI CB & Aquila's vs Air rifle
« Reply #4 on: October 16, 2009, 11:34:09 AM »
Way back when I was young and learning the slide rule the only project I could come up with that interested me was the comparison of a .177 pellet (Benjamin pump) to a .22 short. As I recall the .22 short had about 3 times the energy of the pellet. Maybe 4 times. The sales people who say a pellet gun rivals a .22, well, LIE!. Maybe that ignorant, but they IS wrong. Now we have computers. Not to say the best made pellet guns are not super accurate at 25 meters tops. Then there are the pellet guns from Mexico that shoot pellets with a .22 blank for power... Listed in Gun Digest Annual in years past.

Remington 550 with "floating chamber" will semi auto CB rounds, but not CB longs, covers the gap. Has to be clean. Repeat CLEAN.  [Design was made to shoot standard velocity shorts with the Carbine Williams "floating chamber" also used in the .22 unit for the .45 ACP... His carbine (M?? .30 US) survives. The chamber... welllll]  Savage (Stevens/Fox) made a series of .22 semi autos [87 is one], all I knew of well regarded and today old and cheap, that you could push the bolt handle over locking it into the receiver and use the gun as a repeater... (Yeh, like a kid wants to do that...) Nice to lock the bolt open when cleaning.

That bullet mass compared to the pellet guns makes a ton of difference. Carries more energy farther. At the same time, you want to be sure of target, sure of background (anytime) and restrict yourself to head/brain shots. Lung shots will leave the animal to wander all over looking shot which drives the animal rights nuts NUTS!.

You also want to explore the .22 STANDARD velocity round in a longer barrel. 22 inches? Target gun. I was amazed at how little sound they made. I could shoot indoors without hearing protectors. 40 grain bullet adds a bunch to the energy. Might work for shoulder shots. You will have to find a supplier to match shooters for standard v elocity ammo. Not Walmart I suspect. Most competitors will not fire "hi velocity ammo" in their Walthers.

I was introduced to CBs (there are also BB's. CB = conical bullet. BB = ball bullet.) by an uncle who had a pistol retrieved from Europe when he was there jumping out of planes... (WW II. Jumped into the Bulge...) Tiny beak action single shot. I believe the CB caps were RWS. The case was shorter than a .22 short which would not chamber. Only a decade or more later did CCI introduce the round in US. Fine with them. Not match ammo but for a bird or squirrel in the back yard... Had sonme Eley once too. Also o.k. within usefullness. (Cousin took them out in the country and tried them at range and came crying that the bullet blew in the wind... silly kid...) Enjoy. Luck. HAPPY TRAILS.


Offline S.S.

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2840
Re: CCI CB & Aquila's vs Air rifle
« Reply #5 on: October 16, 2009, 04:55:24 PM »
The colibri and super colibri's in my opinion are about useless past about 10 yards.
They will not even make it out of the barrel on some of my rifles.
Firing them from a scoped rifle, you can watch the bullet fly to the target (if it even makes it there)
The CB caps surpass the colibri by a substantial enough margin that they are not even in the
same class. All of my air rifles surpass the Colibri rounds in both velocity, accuracy and penetration.
CB caps and the Copper cased CB and BB caps will drop squirrels and cottontails pretty handily
out to 30 or 40 yards and I have used them extensively for this for a long time.
Even my lower powered air rifles such as my sheridan will easily punch through a quarter inch
piece of plywood at 30 yards, a colibri will bounce off after leaving a lead smeared dent.
Vir prudens non contra ventum mingit
"A wise man does not pee against the wind".

Offline bckskin2

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Avid Poster
  • **
  • Posts: 247
Re: CCI CB & Aquila's vs Air rifle
« Reply #6 on: October 18, 2009, 01:17:00 AM »
The Super Coliberi penitrated more pagesin a catalog than my old Crossman 66 with a Raptor pellet, but that aint saying much. I'vegot to get some of the CB longs & try them again. I had trird some standard volicity shorts a long time ago. They tried to open the action on my 10/22 and caused a jam. Mighy work OK in the Savage.
Jerry

Offline wreckhog

  • Trade Count: (55)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2997
Re: CCI CB & Aquila's vs Air rifle
« Reply #7 on: October 18, 2009, 04:19:53 AM »
My RWS air rifle with 2 cent Daisy pellets is more accurate than my H&R Versapack .22LR with Super Colibris at 7 cents a shot. Sound and "recoil" are equivalent. Plus I feel that pellets richocet less and don't fly as far. That said, if I just wanted to do some basement plinking or kill some barn pests and I had a .22lr, I would not bother buying a $$$ air rifle.

Offline bckskin2

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Avid Poster
  • **
  • Posts: 247
Re: CCI CB & Aquila's vs Air rifle
« Reply #8 on: October 24, 2009, 03:25:17 AM »
Years ago PO Ackley built a rifle on a Stevens Favorite .17 Barrel & a large rifle prime for power. sounds kind of like the Mexican pellet guns. He used round balls, not pellets.
Cost of ammo vs cost of air gun may equal out unless you do a lot of shooting.
If the weather clears I want to shoot some groups.
Jerry

Offline Gohon

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Avid Poster
  • **
  • Posts: 191
Re: CCI CB & Aquila's vs Air rifle
« Reply #9 on: October 24, 2009, 02:51:54 PM »
Quote
They will not even make it out of the barrel on some of my rifles

Just a wild guess but I'll bet that is the reason there is a warning on the box "must be fired only in handguns".

Offline S.S.

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2840
Re: CCI CB & Aquila's vs Air rifle
« Reply #10 on: October 31, 2009, 10:39:06 AM »
Mine do not have that warning label, I bought the first 500 rd
brick I ever saw and still have lots of them. I have bought no more
so I have none of the boxes with the warning label.
Vir prudens non contra ventum mingit
"A wise man does not pee against the wind".

Offline bckskin2

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Avid Poster
  • **
  • Posts: 247
Re: CCI CB & Aquila's vs Air rifle
« Reply #11 on: November 01, 2009, 12:13:24 PM »
I think it was the regular not the Super with the warning. I would still clean before using full power in case of an obstructed bore.

Offline kevinsmith5

  • Trade Count: (4)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1274
  • Gender: Male
Re: CCI CB & Aquila's vs Air rifle
« Reply #12 on: November 05, 2009, 02:41:19 PM »
Something sounds wrong in this conversation.  I shoot Super Colibri's out of my Savage 7A (work it like a bolt) and have dropped 5 squirrels in the past week at 30+ yards out of the trees in the front yard (iron sights).

At 35 yards they punch right through quarter inch plywood that my RWS 850 air Magnum just sinks a pellet in to level.

I've also clocked them over my chronograph at 750 fps from the 20" barreled 7A, 625 fps out of my 16" barreled Rossi, and 450 fps out of my 6" barreled Hi Standard Sentinel.

The brick is two months old and has NO warning about not firing from anything other than rifles.
If he's carrying a singleshot, don't expect a warning shot!

Offline coyotejoe

  • Trade Count: (4)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2937
  • Gender: Male
Re: CCI CB & Aquila's vs Air rifle
« Reply #13 on: November 06, 2009, 03:41:51 AM »
This is an interesting thread but I'm surprised no one had mentioned the plain old standard velocity .22 short. That's all my dad and I used when I was a kid. From a rifle length barrel I think they're quieter than a magnum air rifle and much more deadly. I have a couple of air rifles for target practice but have no interest in the new fad of high power air guns since for hunting I'd much prefer a .22 rimfire. As far as ammo cost, I'll never live long enough to fire enough shots at game to pay for a super air rifle.
The story of David & Goliath only demonstrates the superiority of ballistic projectiles over hand weapons, poor old Goliath never had a chance.

Offline S.S.

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2840
Re: CCI CB & Aquila's vs Air rifle
« Reply #14 on: November 12, 2009, 05:41:25 PM »
I have a Winchester model 67 that they will stick in the barrel every time.
I tried them in a short barrel rifle and did manage to punch through
one side of a spraypaint can but that is about the best penetration
I have gotten. In fairness, mine are some of the first Super Colibri rounds
that were imported into the U.S. so they may have been improved.
Vir prudens non contra ventum mingit
"A wise man does not pee against the wind".

Offline bckskin2

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Avid Poster
  • **
  • Posts: 247
Re: CCI CB & Aquila's vs Air rifle
« Reply #15 on: November 15, 2009, 10:08:40 AM »
I had thought about the standard volicity shorts, but worry they would mess up the chamber.
Any day it's not raining I have too much work. Next spring I'm going to do some serious gouping.
Jerry

Offline S.S.

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2840
Re: CCI CB & Aquila's vs Air rifle
« Reply #16 on: November 15, 2009, 04:02:27 PM »
I have never encountered a barrel damaged by shooting shorts in a
.22lr chamber. I hunt Squirrel and Rabbits with Flobert BB caps and they
are half the length of shorts, no problem at all. Pain in the butt to load
into the chamber with fat fingers though.
Vir prudens non contra ventum mingit
"A wise man does not pee against the wind".

Offline JPShelton

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 460
Re: Slide rule... Re: CCI CB & Aquila's vs Air rifle
« Reply #17 on: November 18, 2009, 03:54:40 AM »
Way back when I was young and learning the slide rule the only project I could come up with that interested me was the comparison of a .177 pellet (Benjamin pump) to a .22 short. As I recall the .22 short had about 3 times the energy of the pellet. Maybe 4 times.

So the .22 has more power than the pellet.  Big whoop.  You only need 4 ft/lbs of impact energy to kill a cottontail dead with a .177 pellet.  My .177 Beeman R-9 can deliver over 2 times that amount to the 50 yard line shooting Crosman Premier Lights with a BC of .028. 

Quote
The sales people who say a pellet gun rivals a .22, well, LIE!. Maybe that ignorant, but they IS wrong. Now we have computers. Not to say the best made pellet guns are not super accurate at 25 meters tops. Then there are the pellet guns from Mexico that shoot pellets with a .22 blank for power... Listed in Gun Digest Annual in years past.

They aren't wrong.  The best made pellet guns aren't .177 Benjamins, cool though they may be.  The best made pellet guns suitable for hunting small game are accurate enough hit the magic spot behind the eye and below the ear of a cotton tail rabbit at 50 yards.  In California, you can legally shoot upland game birds with an air rifle (subsection 311f, title 14, CCR) and the kill zone on a quail is roughly 1.5" in diameter.  I didn't have any problem at all killing valley quail at distances out to 57 yards with a .177 R-9.  While it is true that you do need a certain amount of energy to cleanly kill small game, that amount is actually pretty darn low.  Any excess is expended in the atmosphere on pass through and the resulting impact with whatever ultimately stops the projectile.

Here in the Cookson Hills of Northeastern Oklahoma, I like to go squirrel hunting on a 550 acre patch of public hunting land on the top of what passes for a mountain around these parts.  No way would I want to shoot squirrells out of the trees with my 10/22 there.  The surrounding lowlands are dotted with smallholdings and without a good backstop, who knows where a .22 bullet will fall under such conditions?  But I know that my pellets won't travel more than 500 yards, even if discharged at optimum angle for maximum range.  The maximum range isn't high, and that is the attraction.  The maximum effective range on small game, however, is a darn sight more than 25 yards, even with a little weenie middle magnum springer like an R-9.  It is accurate enough for me to reliably and effectively kill squirrells, rabbits, and upland game birds (where legal) out to 50 yards and beyond.  Wind plays havoc and a breeze that will barely affect the flight of a .22 LR round will drift an airgun pellet, but shoot one enough outdoors, and you get really good and "doping wind" and that isn't a bad skill to develop, because it translates over to other shooting disciplines.


Quote
That bullet mass compared to the pellet guns makes a ton of difference. Carries more energy farther. At the same time, you want to be sure of target, sure of background (anytime) and restrict yourself to head/brain shots. Lung shots will leave the animal to wander all over looking shot which drives the animal rights nuts NUTS!.

Not so fast there, Pardner......  Velocity is squared in energy calcs while mass isn't.  So it isn't all about mass.  It is also about a thing called ballistic coeffecient, and in my .177 R-9, the highest it gets for me .032.  That's paltry, but that's okay because it is adequate to deliver a 50 yard effective range, but limits the maximum range potential to not much more than 500 yards.  That lets me safely take game with an air rifle where I wouldn't want to try with any rimfire firearm.  I am going to take exception to head and brain shots only, too.  I heart/lung cottontails with a .20 R-9 frequently, and the result is pretty much ffffffffft / flop, every time.  Ditto with gray and fox squirrels.  They are much tougher to kill than cottontails, but they'll succumb to a heart/lung shot with a .20 pellet from my R-9 plenty quick enough.  They don't run off bleeding all over the Northeastern Oklahoma countryside, either.  They just fall out the trees and die before they hit the ground.  They'd do the same if I hit them in the same spot with my 10/22, as well, but with that rifle, I have to worry about it also doing the same thing to somebody's kid a mile or two away.  I don't have that problem with the air rifle.

-JP



Offline kevinsmith5

  • Trade Count: (4)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1274
  • Gender: Male
Re: CCI CB & Aquila's vs Air rifle
« Reply #18 on: November 18, 2009, 04:30:16 PM »
If you're worrying about killing someone at a mile with a 22 I really need to know what ammo you use. A 40 gr 22 bullet falling out of the sky will have the same effect as a 1/4 inch hail stone (none). You'd have to be shooting mighty heavy for caliber rounds to hurt anything. I grew up on base and have actually seen an M16 bullet (55 gr) bounce off a cars windshield a mile and a half from the rifle range without any chipping too the windshield. Now if that had been a Ma Deuce.....
If he's carrying a singleshot, don't expect a warning shot!

Offline JPShelton

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 460
Re: CCI CB & Aquila's vs Air rifle
« Reply #19 on: November 18, 2009, 09:46:53 PM »
If you're worrying about killing someone at a mile with a 22 I really need to know what ammo you use. A 40 gr 22 bullet falling out of the sky will have the same effect as a 1/4 inch hail stone (none). You'd have to be shooting mighty heavy for caliber rounds to hurt anything. I grew up on base and have actually seen an M16 bullet (55 gr) bounce off a cars windshield a mile and a half from the rifle range without any chipping too the windshield. Now if that had been a Ma Deuce.....


I seriously doubt that anyone reading this thread would enjoy getting hit in the eyeball with a 40 grain chunk of lead moving along at 60 miles per hour, let alone terminal velocity, or anything above it.  Such an incident might not actually kill the person getting hit in the eye, but the end result wouldn't exactly be accurately described as "harmless," either.

Oh, and I normally shoot CCI Mini-Mags or WW Dynapoints out of my mildly hot-rodded 10/22 when I am hunting areas where the use of a rimfire rifle is safe and the rimfire is appropriate for the game being taken.

-JP

Offline Sensai

  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Avid Poster
  • **
  • Posts: 110
  • Gender: Male
  • Takeoffs are optional, landings are manditory!
Re: CCI CB & Aquila's vs Air rifle
« Reply #20 on: November 19, 2009, 09:04:03 AM »
My little Henry H001 lever action handles CCI CB shorts real well.  Since I got it the Gamo has pretty well been retired.  The CB short is quieter and , subjectively at least, hits harder.  It handles tree rats and pests handily.  It's also a lot more fun to carry and shoot.
Life's too short to waste any of it,

 Gary

Offline kevinsmith5

  • Trade Count: (4)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1274
  • Gender: Male
Re: CCI CB & Aquila's vs Air rifle
« Reply #21 on: November 21, 2009, 03:16:22 AM »
Terminal velocity of a falling 40 gr round would be less than 60 mph, and even at that veocity the round would have less than a foot pound of energy. There have also been some energy calculations mentioned here about the AR vs 22 that ignor the difference in momentum, a comon problem when people start comparing small bullets. Simple velocity and energy calculations would lead smeone to believe a M16 round at 100 yard would have the same energy and stopping power as a 30-30. Anyone whose ever shot a deer (or a 2x12) at 100 yards with both of those rifles knows that isn't true.

My problem with 22 shorts has been they tend to be less accurate beyond 25 yardds than the Aquilas, think it might be that the Aquilas leave less free bore.
If he's carrying a singleshot, don't expect a warning shot!

Offline bckskin2

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Avid Poster
  • **
  • Posts: 247
Re: CCI CB & Aquila's vs Air rifle
« Reply #22 on: February 03, 2010, 02:59:30 AM »
I verified my little Crosman even with the Raptors pumped 12 times won't kill or seriously injure a 'possum at point blank range. Head shot at 5 feet. By the time I could get DuraMatic and the Super Colibre he was under the hay.

Offline Glanceblamm

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2814
Re: CCI CB & Aquila's vs Air rifle
« Reply #23 on: February 03, 2010, 03:13:30 AM »
Quote
That bullet mass compared to the pellet guns makes a ton of difference. Carries more energy farther

Ditto, The CCI CB short weighs in @ 29gr

Offline bckskin2

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Avid Poster
  • **
  • Posts: 247
CCI CB LONGS
« Reply #24 on: February 03, 2010, 10:54:03 AM »
Picked up a box today. They will feed thru both the Duramatic and my 10/22 if loaded all they way back. They are louder in the Duramatic and sometimes kick the action part way open.
Using the 10/22 as a bolt action its sure faster than any pellet gun I have tried.
I remembered why I like that 10/22 so much.
I'm going to be shooting it more.

Offline greenjeans

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 583
Re: CCI CB & Aquila's vs Air rifle
« Reply #25 on: February 12, 2010, 03:00:03 PM »
I have used CB longs and shorts and always understood that both have the same power. I buy whatever I can find. Good for squirrels in the back yard. I have some Super Aquilas that I shoot in a old Mossberg single shot and have never had one lodge in he barrel. Not nearly as much power as the CBs.
Romans 8:38,39

Offline bckskin2

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Avid Poster
  • **
  • Posts: 247
Re: CCI CB & Aquila's vs Air rifle
« Reply #26 on: February 19, 2010, 11:49:16 AM »
I think the longs are easier to feed & that may not be altogether true. I'm still trying to find the Remington Cbees