Author Topic: Anybody shoot 40-82? (Read 1748 times)

Old Cane · « **on:** October 28, 2003, 06:29:25 AM »

I see quite a few 86's for sale in this caliber. I can't find any load data at any of my usual sites. Is it a BP only load? Can you find brass?

Also, does anybody have a ballpark idea of converting one to 45/70? Is this commonly done or are the chambers not condusive to conversion?

Blackhawk44 · « **Reply #1 on:** October 28, 2003, 01:01:27 PM »

About the only places I know of for data and ideas on 40-82 are Pet Loads by Ken Waters and Legacy of Lever Guns by Dave Scovill. You can get Legacy from Wolfe Publishing right now for about $5-7. Check their site. Try and find someone to send you a copy of that Pet Loads article. 40-82's and 38-72's used soft steel barrels for black powder, not good for reboring. Better a rebarrel, but I would preserve the old barrel for reinstallation at selling time. 86's of all types should go up quite a bit over the next few years and it would help a lot to be in the orginal caliber and since 40-82 isn't the most common...

John Traveler · « **Reply #2 on:** October 28, 2003, 01:19:47 PM »

Handloader Magazine had some nice articles on loading for the .40-82 a few years ago.

If I recall, the .40-70 and .40-82 are both based on the .45-70 and .45-90 case head size. You can make brass from those other two.

I've examined the .40-72 in an original Winchester Hi-Wall. It looks like an undernourished version of the .45-70!

HTH
John

Old Cane · « **Reply #3 on:** October 28, 2003, 04:36:45 PM »

Thanks, gents. I have no 'smithing experience so is it just having someone put on a 45/70 barrel after taking the original off? I don't mean to make it sound like a simple task but am I on the right track? Since the brass is similar in size does everyting line up correctly? If this is the case it sounds like it wouldn't be too (relative) expensive once a donor barrel is found. Are these available new? I see new wood for them.

I don't want to ruin a collectible piece but I do want a shooter not a wallhanger. I guess the original wood and barrel could be replaced at a later date if needed.

So many questions, so little time.

John Traveler · « **Reply #4 on:** October 29, 2003, 04:24:50 AM »

Darnit, I forgot to check the cartridge dimensions for .40-82 vs .45-70 last night. Sorry.

If the .40-82 is indeed based on the .45-70/.45-90 casehead size, then, yes, converting your 1886 to fire .45-70 is simply a matter of replacing and fitting the barrel. You will also need to replace the cartridge guides if you want a repeater. As far as I know, direct screw-in barrels are not available off-the-shelf. However, most any competent levergun 'smith can fit one for you. It will probably cost several hundreds of dollars, including bluing and the price of the barrel blank.

HTH
John

pinduck · « **Reply #5 on:** October 29, 2003, 05:13:00 AM »

A good information site for leverguns http://www.leverguns.com/

Old Cane · « **Reply #6 on:** October 29, 2003, 02:55:57 PM »

Thanks all. Gives me something to consider. A couple of hundred, if one can pick up a fair rifle, is not to much to invest in it. A couple of thousand would be. I appreciate everyone's input on this and welcome any more.

marlinman93 · « **Reply #7 on:** November 02, 2003, 01:43:19 PM »

If the gun you find has a poor bore, you might consider another alternative. Have it rebored to .45-70. This would be the cheapest and simplest solution.

Oldtimer · « **Reply #8 on:** November 02, 2003, 04:20:03 PM »

A friend had one some years ago when components were hard to come by. I had to use .45 Basic brass to make the cases. It was a matter of shortening and resizing. After that, I just ran it into a resizing die and loaded. I developed a load that shot well with lead bullets. I used 55.0 grains of H-4831 and a standard primer. It was so accurate that we never bothered to try any further load development. I managed to find an original Lyman combination loading tool, that included a bullet mould and nutcracker reloading tool. Unless the bore is really ruined, I would try to reload for the gun. A lot of the guns were rebored and rechambered for 45-70, as the cartridge is much easier to find. As was mentioned, Reloader Magazine has done at least two extensive articles in the 40-82, and you can order back issues from them. BTW, the bore diameter is .406, so .410 bullets could be resized to work.

86er · « **Reply #9 on:** November 15, 2003, 04:06:35 PM »

Old Cane, if you have a 40-82 please try to clean up the bore, if at all possible. Early model 1886 Winchesters were designed to be fired using black powder loads, so caution should be used when loading with modern smokeless. These rifles, if in good mechanical condition, are safe as long as pressure levels are kept under 28K. Also, the majority of these guns had oversize bores. Have your gun slugged to determine the actual bore diameter. My rifle is an excellent shooter using .408 to .410 bullets. Redding makes dies for the 40-82. I use Starline 45-90 brass, run it through the sizing die and trim to length.

Ric · « **Reply #10 on:** November 16, 2003, 05:52:21 AM »

:-D
Just saw this post on the old 40-82, what a great cartridge it was and still is. Being the proud owner of many old 86's, including several 40-82's, I find the best load for them is using AA-5744 powder and the original 260 bullet mould made by Winchester long, long ago. Although several other moulds work well too, I like using my oldie best. Just about any 260 grain bullet mould will work fine if diameters are in line with your groove measurements. My best shooting 40, has .408 groove but likes a plain lead (soft) bullet from the old .406 mould. I shoot this bullet right from the mould, no sizing but I do grease them by hand. In this manor, the soft lead can "pooch-up" to fill the grooves, giving great accuracy clear out to 200 yards. If your looking for great performance, say around 1500 fps, which is very close to the original BB velocity, try 25.5 of AA-5744 behind your favorite 260 grain mould. Another thing I do is, push a wad onto the powder made of good old toilet paper, keeps the powder back against the primer better and really does improve on accuracy. I use one piece of 2-ply for each case, rolling them up, followed by seating using a wooden dowel. Now for something thant can be a pain: All three of my 40's have what I'll call very tight neck measurements, meaning the bullet I use has a little trouble going into the chamber due to over-all neck measurements of the loaded brass. Having worked with these rifles for years now, I can't see how they ever used .408 bullets in them as mine won't hardly allow chambering a .406 bullet, much less anything larger. Because they were BB rifles, its my belief they were shot with smaller bullets on purpose in order to get more rounds fired before they powder-fowled and the use of soft lead allowed for good accuracy because the bullet expands better than a hard bullet does. For this tight neck reason, I made a die for compressing the necks of my loaded rounds just aboit .0002 and in this manor they chamber easily and fit perfectly streight in the bore. Anyway I slice it, this is my formula for getting the old 40-82 to shoot well, like inside 4 inches at 200 yards, most of the time..If anyone has other ideas I would love to hear from you, please write.

Ric ricn@direcway.com

86er · « **Reply #11 on:** November 16, 2003, 08:55:54 AM »

:grin: The 40-82 was a very popular cartridge back in the day.Winchester and Remington UMC loaded it up to the mid '30s. Winchester "dropped" production of Model 1886 rifles in the caliber in 1910. However, some 40-82 caliber guns were assembled from time to time. Earlier this year I looked at a takedown '86 made in 1915. It had a Winchester proof steel barrel and half mag. For the life of me, I don't know why I let it get away. I was after another nickle steel barrelled 45-90 and shined the 40-82. Should've grabbed both of 'em.