Author Topic: what do you think guys? (Read 1698 times)

slickest · « **on:** February 12, 2010, 03:59:48 PM »

I just bought a .223 thats going to be my up to .400yd varmint rifle. I also have a ruger mkII .300wm that will handle any large game i want to hunt.

BUT....
I want to build or buy a rifle that will pull duty as a long range varmint/target rifle (up to a 1000yds) but can also be used for antelope/deer hunting. keep in mind that i am left handed. More than anything I want accuracy but also the weight of the rifle not be extremely high. I have been looking at a .243AI,25-06, and 6.5X284 as far as rounds go. Im going to be reloading for this rifle so availability of over the counter ammo isnt that important but it would also be nice to not have rediculous reloading costs.

Im not really sure what cailber, barrel length, brand of barrel, or action go with. Im open to suggestions and would prefer this rifle not to be a throat burner. this will be the first custom i have ever had built. Besides the occasional deer or antelope this gun is really going to be used as a long range prairie dog rifle the most. So i would say wind drift is one of the bigest factors getting into the hills of wyoming. im just looking for suggestions or opinions from someone who has been pondering this before. thanks for any input guys

Frank46 · « **Reply #1 on:** February 12, 2010, 05:28:48 PM »

The 6.5x284 has been one of the top performers at long range from what I've heard. However there are a few 6.5 cartridges out there that give longer barrel life and I seem to remember something like the 6.5x47 lapua and a few others. Hopefully others will come and give you more info than I have. Frank

chutesnreloads · « **Reply #2 on:** February 12, 2010, 07:03:20 PM »

Up to 1000 yards....and carry to hunt?Me thinks you should be thinking about two rifles.

Dances with Geoducks · « **Reply #3 on:** February 12, 2010, 08:07:23 PM »

I would not want to carry my long distance tool very far. It weighs a lot.

slickest · « **Reply #4 on:** February 13, 2010, 05:08:34 AM »

where I hunt prairie dogs i cant just go in and set up a shooting table. or i would like to have a heavy varmint/target rifle made. I have to walk in and their is a few hills i have to go over. I would like the possibility of the rifle being able to make up to or around a 1000yd shot if I did my part. the most i really could see happening is 800 yds on a non windy day with a good range finder. This is really going to be my back up rifle to my .223 if the shot is longer than i think i can make with it. like i said its just an idea i have pondered. Having a good accurate rifle but not extremely heavy at the same time.

diggler1833 · « **Reply #5 on:** February 13, 2010, 05:36:15 AM »

Straignt .243 will get you there with a 1:8 twist. Will be able to shoot anything from the 87gr V-Max to the 115 DTAC. Less money to feed and less recoil than a lot of other calibers as well. Can't think of any factory 1:8 twist .243s though, so a rebarrel will be in order.

slickest · « **Reply #6 on:** February 13, 2010, 04:52:27 PM »

diggler. Know anything about the .243AI? The gunsmith I was talking to said he has made a couple and really impressed with the accuracy and the range. I would like to know more before I had one made.

Sweetwater · « **Reply #7 on:** February 13, 2010, 06:22:45 PM »

Where are you in Wyoming that you have non-windy days often enough to insure that you have that day to shoot? How much wind-drift at 800-1000 yards and catch a prairie dog? Not arguing, just throwing out questions... Still a kicker of an idea! I have a pal in Laramie who has some kind of 243Improved. He's using that new IMR4007 and says some wonderful things about it.

That 6.5x47Lupau - is that similar to the 6.5TCU ie 223 necked upto 6.5? I had a couple of contender barrels in that one, a 10 and a 14 for IHMSA production and unlimited class. Took an antelope at a little over 300 yards, and the round was pretty much out of steam. and no, I didn't worry about the wind, though I'm sure it was blowing its normal in Farson that day! LOL

Regards,
Sweetwater

roper · « **Reply #8 on:** February 14, 2010, 09:00:54 AM »

slickest, If you look at winning 6mm used IBS 1000yd light match most are from the 6Br and those small groups are from rifles tuned for that yardage only. The width on a PD at 800/1000 yds takes a pretty good shooter,rest,scope and rifle to make one shot hits what I mean is 10 shots = 10 hits.

Here the result from 1000yd match light agg 5 shot groups
http://www.iowa1000ydbenchrest.com/2009%20nationals/09%20Nats_LGgrp.htm

Here the result for Heavy agg 10 shot groups
http://www.iowa1000ydbenchrest.com/2009%20nationals/09%20Nats_HGgrp.htm

If you look at the 600yd match here some result plus calibers
http://www.varminthunter.org/600/ click on result 2009 for the latest equipment list bottom of page

Don't get me wrong but research does help and if was me I'd shorten the yardage to may 600yd for PD then maybe work up.

I think the 243AI/6RemAI set up for the Berger 115gr VLD hunting bullet be a good calibers if wanting to hunt deer/antelope otherwise the 6BR.

Well good luck

Catfish · « **Reply #9 on:** February 14, 2010, 09:07:33 AM »

I built up a Savage with a .22-6mm ( .224 TTH) barrel. The only group I fired with it at 600 yrds. was a 3 shot group of just abt 2 in. With an 8 twist it was a tack driver with 80 gr. Sierra or Berger bullets. I shot out the barrel in abt 1,000 rounds and am waiting on a new one. Freat round, just don`t get the barrel to hot.

slickest · « **Reply #10 on:** February 14, 2010, 11:13:51 AM »

lol, i really dont know if i will ever get and 800yd shot on a pdog. but i sure do like the idea. One shot one kill... yeah right...

more like 5 shots one wounded. like i said i just want something to handle longer shots with out horrible drift compared to a .223 some where around a 6mm to .257 caliber. I dont really want to load over 3000fps. so basically i dont want a barrel burner. i think right now its a pretty big toss up between a .243AI and a .25-06. Im really leaning towards the .25-06 because I can start out buying one factory and if i want maybe make it into like a .257 roberts or something of the sort. im just looking for ideas from other people from trial and error. I know if I ever have one built i will make up one load and stick with it. then but custom turrets from kenton industries for the scope.

If I have something built that someone says and really appeals to me im more looking on info for twist on barrel, barrel length, and bullet weight.

diggler1833 · « **Reply #11 on:** February 15, 2010, 03:48:00 AM »

Slickest....I don't personally own a .243AI so my knowledge is somewhat limited to BS'ing with the guys who do. I do know for a fact though that you can count on a little bit more velocity, a little flatter trajectory, a little less wind doping, and a even less barrel life over a standard .243.

I just mentioned the .243 since ammo/brass is easy and more affordable to get into than all of the other mentioned calibers. I really tossed the Idea of a fast twist .243 around a few months ago, but ended up going for with fast twist .260 Remington on a 700 action with Broughton 5C barrel and Manners stock. The .243 will probably be coming along next year in a Vietnam era M40 knock-off build.

roper · « **Reply #12 on:** February 15, 2010, 06:04:18 AM »

Slickest, I'm no different than any other poster as to giving an opinion. You have an opinion for a gunsmith you talked to and you like what he had to say was a caliber that you liked also for me I build the 243AI and have him do the work. Half the battle on build something is getting the gunsmith enthused on the caliber.

Well good luck

guess I got brain dead on spelling opinion!

Sweetwater · « **Reply #13 on:** February 15, 2010, 06:30:45 AM »

Quote from: roper on February 15, 2010, 06:04:18 AM

Slickest, I'm no different than any other poster as to giving an option. You have an option for a gunsmith you talked to and you like what he had to say was a caliber that you liked also for me I build the 243AI and have him do the work. Half the battle on build something is getting the gunsmith enthused on the caliber.

Well good luck

How true about getting your gunsmith enthused with YOUR project!! My Dad wanted to AI his 257Roberts ever since he got it in 1952. Along into the mid-90's he finally figured he had enough "surplus" to justify the cost. Every 'smith' he talked to tried to talk him out of it as being impractical and spoiling a perfectly rifle. My response was since when did a chamber job have to be practical and it was his rifle to spoil if he chose?! Anyway it never got done...

If your chosen gunsmith is enthused with your project, go for it. It's your choice, but it's his attitude that will get you the job you really want. Good Luck!

Regards,
Sweetwater

slickest · « **Reply #14 on:** February 15, 2010, 03:41:35 PM »

i was reading something in the wildcat form about an 25-06AI. do you guys know anything about them? Also what would you guys try to get for a lh action. rem700?

8iowa · « **Reply #15 on:** February 16, 2010, 03:05:04 PM »

I have a Ruger #1 std in 25-06. It's a great shooter, and with a 26" barrel I don't know if I'd gain enough in rechambering to AI to make it worthwhile. With an 87 grain bullet it is definitely a long range varmint rifle, and with the heavier bullets is certainly adequate for deer size game. I know one Colorado guide who uses the 25-06 for elk.

Sweetwater · « **Reply #16 on:** February 16, 2010, 07:25:20 PM »

I knew several guys and a gal who were successful on elk with the 25-06 - it's no slouch!

Regards,
Sweetwater

helmickarms · « **Reply #17 on:** March 02, 2010, 05:16:28 AM »

While I know there is nothing new or sexy about the .308 win. it would meet all your criteria. It is more than capable out to a 1000 yrds. with 175gn bullets and larger. It has excellent barrel life and you can get away with a shorter barrel to keep the weight down without sacrificing performance. There are tons of bullet choices and brass is easy to come by.

I have had the best luck with Lilja Barrels but Brux and Pacnor have done well for me also. I would go with a #6 or 7 contour barrel with a 1-11 twist and have it fluted. I would also keep the length to somewhere around 20 to 21". A Remington short action is probably the best choice for weight. You can also scalp the action, flute the bolt and skelotonize the bolt handle to shave weight. Just remember to keep the weight up front and not in the back.

What weight would you consider acceptable?

diggler1833 · « **Reply #18 on:** March 02, 2010, 01:01:33 PM »

When it comes to long-range ballistics, the .308 is generally trumped by its fast-twist brethren in .243/.260 (not that the .308 is a bad choice given factory ammo considerations).

Good thing about the .308 is generally you can still run it well with minimal velocity loss out a shorter tube. I'd personally keep the extra couple of inches of barrel though and have the 20-30 inches of wind drift advantage that the .243 and .260 have (6.5x284 being even a slight bit better).

helmickarms · « **Reply #19 on:** March 03, 2010, 01:07:14 PM »

Well the way I see it is, you just can't have everything.

The 6.5 does hit the sweet spot when it comes to balistics but they burn barrels like no other, especially the 6.5x284 and while the 6mm's are a little easier on throats they still offer less than half the barrel life of a .308 Win. (Barrel life was listed as a concern by the original poster.) Weight was also a concern and I can't think of another 1000yrd cartridge that can get away with a 20" tube which is the easiest way to cut weight from a rifle. Not to mention the benifits of a short stiff barrel when it comes to accuracy.

Like I said there are a lot of cartridges out there that are way sexier but none that I can think of that meet all the posters criteria as well as the good old 308 Win.

Doesniper · « **Reply #20 on:** March 03, 2010, 01:54:39 PM »

I've had a 243 AI and while it's a real hot rod, the barrel lasted less than 1000 rounds. I have since rebarreled it to a 260AI and love it. the 260 or the 6.5x55 would give you what you're looking for, with good barrel life (as long as it's not abused).

diggler1833 · « **Reply #21 on:** March 03, 2010, 03:01:44 PM »

Hate to say it but a .243 will yield less barrel life than a .260. Some though have managed to squeeze in the neighborhood of 3000 rounds of acceptable accuracy out of a .243 shooting the 115 DTAC, think one of GA Precision's 'smiths.

There is a bit of info on a few 18.5" .308s that make it to 1K without issue.

Personally, I've not found a firing line so "cramped" that it made it necessary to wield a super short barrel trying to move the rifle from the case to the bench. Or from the case to the open field for that matter. As far as weight savings...well, I'll just stay in shape.

diggler1833 · « **Reply #22 on:** March 03, 2010, 03:06:01 PM »

I will also say that I do believe somewhat in the theory that a shorter barrel should net you an accuracy advantage over a longer barrel.

I don't see too many guys in F Open or F T/R that run short barrels though...must be a more velocity/less drop and drift thing.