Author Topic: Wheel Weight BH ? (Read 2144 times)

David I. · « **on:** February 16, 2010, 06:58:34 AM »

I'm sure this subject has been addressed before, please direct me to any previous threads if need be. What is the average BH of wheel weights? I've noticed looking at previous threads as best I could that many people are having good sucess using them. Right now I'm purchasing hard cast bullets that are .459 diam. for my 45-70 H&R BC, but down the road I may want to cast my own. I read somewhere on a previous thread that someone had real good sucess with the Lee .459 hollow base mold using wheel weights and shooting them out of his H&R BC. He said he did not resize them and they work great right out of the mold. If I use wheel weights, will I have to do any cleaning before, during or after casting? I really don't know much about hand casting and would prefer to keep it as simple as possible. It sounded as though his method was pretty simple and straight forward. My barrel slugs out right at .458 (very close).

David I. · « **Reply #1 on:** February 17, 2010, 04:23:18 AM »

I'm not sure why no one cares to respond so far, other than maybe they don't care to get into it. I really don't need to get into it that much right now either. I was just wondering out of curiousity what the average hardness is for clip on wheel weights. I'm aware that the Lee mold I mentioned is not the worlds best and I really don't need to discuss that point. As far as wanting to keep things simple I should have added inexpensive. I need to keep it as simple and inexpensive as possible due to time and money constraints. I guess right now all I really need to know is the average hardness of clip on wheel weights.

lee1954 · « **Reply #2 on:** February 17, 2010, 01:34:48 PM »

Ok I can't help with bh --- but out of a .30 lee mold that I ground the gas check step out -- I dropped out of the mold unto cold water -- and sized... they shot at 1300 FPS without leading --- no gas check
I'm not a top class caster -- I have a Lee lead pot (both 4# and 10# ) ... have used those littel cheep pots (Lee and Lyman).. that you heat with a propane torch -- also used a bottom of a bigger compreser unit that held about 3 gal size --- all worked .. I'd like to get the bottom pour Lee 20 LB when my ship comes it !!! not that the high $$$$$$ settups aren't better...
I like the little Lee spoon type dipper to get the clips out $4.00 -- works for casting --- The bottom pour lyman dipper is a littel nicer -- cost more too.. don't foget flux candle wax, wheel greese, old times used fat/ lard....I like Frankford Arsenal -- cleanCastLead fluxing Compound --- but there are others that might work better..... cast away find what work for you...

I have been adding pewter (has loads of tin in it ) to bator .22 --getting nice hard bullets for .223 and 22 hornet DAN

jhalcott · « **Reply #3 on:** February 17, 2010, 03:13:18 PM »

david, wheel weight hardness depends on where AND when they were made. In Maryland they are running around 12 bhn NOW. They were about 13+ some years ago. There are MANY more zinc ww's in a bucket compared to just 5 years ago, so make certain to sort them out. I shoot a softer alloy than ww's in MY Comntender, but use a Lyman #2 alloy for a Mauser bolt gun. IF you are hunting with the buffalo Classic, a 1/20 tin to lead alloy is fine. A 50/50 ww/pure lead will do fine. There is a LOT of info in this site. http://www.lasc.us/CastBulletNotes.htm

mechanic · « **Reply #4 on:** February 17, 2010, 03:46:48 PM »

David,

I cast for my BC with a hollow base mold. I use my own alloy most of the time, that is a little softer than WW, but WW would be fine as cast as well. I use either a home made pan lube, or Alox dependent on how hot I'm loading. I've shot these up to about 1700 fps with no leading problems, and good accuracy. They will shoot best at a little slower speed, IMO around 1300 or so. I get less than 2" groups at 100 with this bullet in 405 grns. If I'm having a good day and no win and I'm not tired or shaky, I can get that to an inch or less. With a .458 bullet, that's almost one bit hole.

Best of luck. Most any alloy you try with the hollow base will shoot adequately. Bear in mind, I've only punch paper, so I don't know how it would fare on game, but if not too hard, it should be fine.

Ben

David I. · « **Reply #5 on:** February 17, 2010, 03:53:07 PM »

Thanks lee1954 and jhalcott for the replies and some great info. I started looking at that link from you (jhalcott) and it's really excellent, lots of info and just what I was needing. I will definitely be looking into getting my hands on some clip on wheel weights for future casting, I think it will be the easiest and possibly least expensive route for me to go. I was hoping for something in the range of 15-18 BHN and I might be able to do that with water quenching clip on WW's. Most of my shooting will be target but there will be some hunting. Thanks again for the info and site link.

David I. · « **Reply #6 on:** February 17, 2010, 04:02:59 PM »

Also thanks to mechanic for the great info. As I said I will mostly be doing target shooting. I'll be loading 405gr .459" to approx. 1400-1500fps using 4198. Down the road a little I will probably just get the inexpensive alum. Lee .459 HB mold, a small inexpensive 10# pot, ladle, flux and some Lee liquid Alox....atleast something along those lines., money is a factor.

David I. · « **Reply #7 on:** February 18, 2010, 05:52:17 AM »

This is really a question for "mechanic": I think you're using the Lee SC459-405HB single cavity mold if I'm not mistaken. I noticed a review of this mold on Midway's site that makes a comment about using straight WW with this mold.....the guy says they (bullets) will end up about .463 and will need sizing! I know you said you normally cast your own alloy, but have you ever cast just straight WW with this mold and if so what diam. did they come out at? I don't know if the guy who wrote the review may have been doing something wrong or not. I do know different alloys can end up different diameters but I thought a difference of .004" seemed excessive. I really want to avoid the need to size, not only too time consuming but I can't afford the extra expenditure for the equipment. Please advise, thanks, David.

brad925 · « **Reply #8 on:** February 18, 2010, 06:05:36 AM »

According to the Lyman guide straight wws should come out aroud .458 dia. I would qeustion the mold if it is dropping them that large.

David I. · « **Reply #9 on:** February 18, 2010, 06:34:43 AM »

Thanks brad925. Just so I'm understanding you correctly: The Lee die I spoke of is .459, so you're saying they should come out .459...correct?

gypsyman · « **Reply #10 on:** February 18, 2010, 11:24:00 AM »

David I., gonna stick my .02 worth in here. There are many variables when casting. One of the first molds I got was a RCBS mold,240gr- .429 dia. Except, I never miked the bullets when I first started casting. (over 20 years ago) Figured that everything should be as is. I wondered why it took so much strenght to size and gas check the bullets I made. By the 100th bullet, I broke the bolts that held my Lubsizer to the bench. It was then a friend of mine took and miked a bullet. They were coming out of the mold at .435/.436. I sent the mold back to RCBS, and they replaced it.
Moral of the story, should the bullets come out at .459/.460, yes. Don't be afraid to double check. gypsyman

mechanic · « **Reply #11 on:** February 18, 2010, 11:51:09 AM »

I have dropped wheel weight lead, and almost pure lead with little difference in diameter. With my alloy, just a mix of straight lead with some solder, my bullets come out .459 as advertised with the mold. If you get a mold that oversized, you need to send it back. With a lyman mold I have, I size and lube #2 alloy to .457 and gas check. These are 330gr. bullets and I can push them as fast as I can stand. Even at .457 they shoot less than 2" at 100 yds. My bore slugs at .457 at the muzzle.

David I. · « **Reply #12 on:** February 18, 2010, 11:53:59 AM »

Thanks gypsyman for the reply, I know what you're saying. Having a technical background I know all too well things are not always as they should be. I happen to be one of those nuts that measures everything because I like to be sure of things. I learned from experience not to always trust advertised dimensions, especially these days. One of the "variables" is what I wanted to address regarding my question to "mechanic". The link that mechanic referenced states that different alloys cast out of the same mold can end up slightly different diameters, if I believe it. But I thought .004" was rather excessive for a variance for that to be the cause of that Midway reviewers' results using WW's. Hence, my question to mechanic regarding his results (if any) using WW's with the same mold. I'm trying to eliminate a variable as best I can. I too think it's much more likely the reviewers mold was not made to .459 as it should have been and was probably made to something larger. I'm just trying to make sure as best I can and compare things to "mechanics" results with his mold and hope that he did some measuring along the way. But I do thank you for your reply.

David I. · « **Reply #13 on:** February 18, 2010, 12:12:00 PM »

Thanks mechanic for the reply, most helpful. My barrel slugs right about at .458 at the muzzle. I also stand corrected, the link I mention was not from you "mechanic", it was from jhalcott. It's a very interesting link which I'm sure has some truth to it. But I will say sometimes it's hard to tell fact from opinion, and I also know even so called "testing" can be flawed due to many different variables at times. I prefer to rely more on hands on experience from people like you mechanic, thanks again for the reply.

mechanic · « **Reply #14 on:** February 18, 2010, 03:27:48 PM »

My pleasure friend if I was any help at all. My philosophy is always gather all the info you can, but do your own testing. After all its your gun and your life should things get too far out of whack. I learned what I know from my father, but he was a more knowledgeable teacher than I was an interested student most of the time. I had a family to raise and a job. He was retired on disablility and tinkered with guns......

David I. · « **Reply #15 on:** February 18, 2010, 05:07:14 PM »

Thanks again mechanic. Just for the record I have a very similar philosophy, but I learned the hard way. Such philosophies can be used in life for more things than just firearms....but then that IS my opinion! Take care, David.

boommer · « **Reply #16 on:** February 18, 2010, 07:10:28 PM »

I have a Lee HB 405 and it drops at .461 at a 30-1 mix. This works well in old trapdoors they have bores that run .461 /.462 so that would be a very easy mold to sell. Guys are looking for moulds that are throwing bullets that size. I have a Trapdoor with a .461 bore and just pan lube them and the old girl loves them.
The hollow base design is for soft a soft alloy 40-1/ 30-1 so the base expands and seals the bore W/W would not be the best alloy for the HB,you would be better off with a flat based bullet.

David I. · « **Reply #17 on:** February 19, 2010, 06:30:28 AM »

Thanks boommer for the heads up. I'm strongly considering purchasing the Lee 2-cavity 405gr .457 flat base die. According to the reviews on Midways site they drop bullets at .458 to .459. I guess that's OK although I would prefer mine to be .459....I might take a chance. As I said earlier I really can't afford to buy any sizing equipment now if ever. My barrel bore is right about .458 at muzzle and I'll be loading to anywhere between 1300 and 1500fps.

boommer · « **Reply #18 on:** February 19, 2010, 08:05:23 PM »

DavidI That would be a better bullet for the BC and I also have used that bullet from the lee mould works good in my BC. 4759SR OR 3031 is a good powder for the fps you are looking for. Trail boss powder isn't bad for mouse fart loads (1100fps) nice lite load for killing paper at 100 yards but you will run out of sight at 200 with that BC.

David I. · « **Reply #19 on:** February 20, 2010, 05:19:12 AM »

Thanks boommer. I have previous threads on the sights I will be using. Until I have the money to buy the rear veneer sight I want for shooting at longer distances I will be raising the rear WGRS sight with a spacer block. For shooting at closer distances I will just remove the spacer block. As mentioned in earlier threads I am modifying my front .584" Lyman globe sight, I will be shortening it down to .494" which is the correct height for use with the WGRS rear sight at closer distances. As far as powder I have chosen 4198, it's a little cleaner shooting than 3031 and uses less of it in comparison. I'd like to ask you what diam. your bullets drop using the Lee 2-cavity 405gr .457 FB mold. I know you don't normally cast straight WW but have you ever using that mold? I also know each mold can measure just slightly different, not to mention other variables like alloy being used and temperatures....all things that can change the final diameter somewhat.

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #20 on:** February 20, 2010, 11:48:36 PM »

wws vary alot. I think there made out of what ever scrap load the manufacture has at the time. I dont think ive ever smelted two batches that cast a bullet that weighted the same. What i do is smelt it into 100 lb batches and then combine maybe 5 batches to make a consistant alloy. Part or my problem to is the stick ons. I cast and smelt to much to be bothered with digging through a dirty pail of ww to seperate the stick ons from the clip ons. It all goes in the pot and what i get is what i get. Most of the time you will end up with an alloy around 10bhn when its all said and done.

David I. · « **Reply #21 on:** February 21, 2010, 05:14:59 AM »

Thanks LloydSmale for the reply. I can appreciate what you're saying since you cast quite a bit. I, on the other hand will not be casting that much and will have no problem sorting through the wheel weights. I do intend to carefully sort, I will have no stick ons, no zinc, etc. I will only be doing smaller batches at a time so it's no big deal for me. From what I have read on other forums and cast bullet info sites is it's a very good idea to sort out stick-ons and zinc to avoid as much as possible that variable, and I happen to agree. I have no doubt that not all clip on WW are made of exactly the same alloy, but I don't want to make things worse by adding stick-ons and zinc. I will also be sorting out the steel WW, but as you know they will "float" like the clips themselves. I'm sure your way works well for you, but I prefer to sort mine for the above reasons.

Northern Flatlander · « **Reply #22 on:** March 07, 2010, 04:07:00 PM »

I have been raiding the local tire shop of their WW for 3yrs now.
First yr, 94.5% lead
Second yr, 95.5% lead
Third yr, 95.5% lead
All percentages derived by relative density. No stick-ons included.
FWIW
I guess there is 0.5%+- tin, the rest, antimony.
I dont know what these BHN at, (+-12) as yield strength loads substantiate, but an LBT HT is on the way.

Dwayner

David I. · « **Reply #23 on:** March 08, 2010, 03:30:12 AM »

Thanks Dwayner, I appreciate the info. It will be interesting to know what they test out at.

Northern Flatlander · « **Reply #24 on:** March 22, 2010, 08:18:08 AM »

So's I gots this LBT BHN tester. Stupid happy.
94.5% Lead= 14+BHN
95.5% Lead= 13.5>BHN

All air cooled bullets. The latest batch sat for at least a month.
Dwayner

David I. · « **Reply #25 on:** March 22, 2010, 02:41:20 PM »

Thanks for the info Dwayner....very interesting indeed.