Author Topic: Colt 1851, 1860 Frame Question  (Read 877 times)

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Offline Ironwood

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Colt 1851, 1860 Frame Question
« on: March 18, 2010, 04:21:05 PM »
I'm wanting to make a holster for a replica .44 caliber Colt 1851.  I don't have an 1851 to use as a model.  I do have access to a replica 1860 .44 caliber.  Does the 1851 and the 1860 have the same frame? 
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Offline FourBee

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Re: Colt 1851, 1860 Frame Question
« Reply #1 on: March 19, 2010, 04:36:11 AM »
Hey Ironwood:   The only physical differece I can see between the two revolvers is that the 1851 has an octogon barrel with a shorter (bulky) loading lever assembly.  Don't think it would make a whole lot of difference in holstering the two.

4B
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Offline coyotejoe

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Re: Colt 1851, 1860 Frame Question
« Reply #2 on: March 19, 2010, 05:41:46 AM »
Unless you intend to mold the leather to the exact contour of the gun the holsters are pretty much interchangeable.
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Offline Ironwood

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Re: Colt 1851, 1860 Frame Question
« Reply #3 on: March 19, 2010, 07:09:36 AM »
Thanks 4B, Joe.  I was thinking the two revolvers were pretty much the same size.  If I make the holster fit the 1860 then the 1851 should fit ok.  The friend I'm making the holster for lives in New Hampshire and I'm down here in Texas.  That's why I'm concerned with the fit.   I'm sort of new to leather working and I've never made a holster for the 1851.

Thanks again fellows.
GH     

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Offline Fingers McGee

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Re: Colt 1851, 1860 Frame Question
« Reply #4 on: March 19, 2010, 07:47:33 AM »
1851 and 1860 frames are identicle except for the shelf cut to handle the larger .44 cal rebated cylinder.  1860 barrels are 8", while the 1851 is 7 1/2 inch (unless you got one of them historically incorrect Sheriffs models).

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Offline Ironwood

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Re: Colt 1851, 1860 Frame Question
« Reply #5 on: March 19, 2010, 12:34:03 PM »
Thanks Fingers.  I'll be careful not to overly enlarge the cylinder area.
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Offline bedbugbilly

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Re: Colt 1851, 1860 Frame Question
« Reply #6 on: March 19, 2010, 03:18:08 PM »
Ironwood - Ahhhhhhhh . . . . I'd be careful if I were you . . . . your buddy lives in NH and you live in Texas where I've always heard they do things "biggeer"!   ;D   I was just going to chime in to mention the barrel length but I just saw someone else did.  Good luck with the holster - you shouldn't have any problems as it should work for both pistols without any problems.  I'm sure he'll be thrilled with it!  Happy shooting!   :)
If a pair of '51 Navies were good enough for Billy Hickok, then a single one on my right hip is good enough for me.  Besides, I'm probably only half as good as he was anyway . . . . now . . . how do I load this confounded contraption?

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Offline Ironwood

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Re: Colt 1851, 1860 Frame Question
« Reply #7 on: March 19, 2010, 03:55:05 PM »
Thank you Billy.  Yes the holster will be open at the bottom.  Yeah things are bigger here in Texas... take the Walker Colt for instance. :)
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Offline Flint

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Re: Colt 1851, 1860 Frame Question
« Reply #8 on: March 19, 2010, 07:30:49 PM »
I use the same holsters for both guns, and except for a real tight Slim Jim, the 72 Opentop as well.

Make the length for the 1860, rather than have an 1860 muzzle stick out the end of a Navy length holster.  The cylinders are the same on a 44 Navy as a 44 Army, so the only difference will be the barrel length and the shape of the loading lever. 
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Offline bedbugbilly

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Re: Colt 1851, 1860 Frame Question
« Reply #9 on: March 20, 2010, 01:15:40 PM »
Flint - GREAT suggestion on making the holster for the '60 Army barrel length.  Maybe his buddy will like the '51 enough that he'll go out and buy a '60 as well and use the holster for both!  I've been making holsters for my "toys" for the last year or so and for some reason, get "hung up" on the holster barrel length.  I guess I'm too much of a "perfectionist" when it comes to that.  I started out using a pattern that I bought that was supposed to be for the '51 Navy - made it and when I slid the Navy in, it was way out of proportion and it allowed an extra inch beyond the barrel length.  From then on, I started developing my own patterns which have worked out better.  I just finished sewing one up for my '61 Navy this afternoon and am in the process of "molding" it to the pistol right now.  I haven't done any open ended holsters as my personal preference is to have them closed.  I've used sewn in plugs but lately have started just sewing them shut.  The one I'm working on today for the '61 Navy has a sewn end, a modified loop without a back skirt and a modified half flap.  This pattern worked out great as far as tight fit that could be molded and my next one will be an open top for a '51 Navy.  I'm going to follow your suggestion though and make it long enough for a '60 Army barrel length.  Right now, I just have Navies (Colt, a Remmie) and a '62 Colt Pocket Police.  My next addition will be a '60 Army and your suggestion makes a lot of sense.  I, myself, really appreciate your suggestion . . . it's always nice for those of us who think within parallel lines to have someone who shares their input and gets you to thinking "outside the box"!  Many thank!   :)
If a pair of '51 Navies were good enough for Billy Hickok, then a single one on my right hip is good enough for me.  Besides, I'm probably only half as good as he was anyway . . . . now . . . how do I load this confounded contraption?

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Offline FourBee

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Re: Colt 1851, 1860 Frame Question
« Reply #10 on: March 20, 2010, 02:08:56 PM »
My older brother used to be quite handy with leather craftsmanship.   As age crept up on him he turned to buying holsters from Cabelas' and then restructured them to his liking.    ;)  
Enjoy your rights to keep and bear arms.

Offline Ironwood

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Re: Colt 1851, 1860 Frame Question
« Reply #11 on: March 20, 2010, 02:44:26 PM »
4B... I got into leatherworking much to late in my life.  I'm 73 and sure not as steady as I once was. :)  I'm doing this just for fun.  I don't have any intentions of making money from the leather. 

I'm working on my first holster with a skirt right now.  It's molded and drying.  The holster for the 1851 will have a skirt. It will have a buckle holster loop.  I also have a nice star concho to put on it.  I wish I knew how to do some carving but I guess that will have to wait.

Billy, do you line your holsters.  I've lined the ones I've made so far.  I don't like the raw side of the leather showing at all.  Lining takes more leather, lots more work and stitching, but I think it's worth it.
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Offline P.A. Myers

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Re: Colt 1851, 1860 Frame Question
« Reply #12 on: March 20, 2010, 04:47:34 PM »
Take a look. Similiar yes, identical, no.

Wouldn't make much difference for a holster.
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Offline bedbugbilly

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Re: Colt 1851, 1860 Frame Question
« Reply #13 on: March 20, 2010, 05:42:20 PM »
Ironwood - up to now I haven't made a lined one . . . but . . . . the next one will be.  I'm going to make an open top for an '51 Navy.  I'm thinking of using buckskin for the liner . . . . extending it out beyond the side seam for maybe 3 inches or so . . . . over wrap the top and possibly put on a concho and then fringing the buckskin extending beyond the side seam and at the bottom of the over wrap on the top front.  I'll cut the fringe about an eighth of an inch wide and then moisten it and gently work it in a rolling, pulling motion to make it "stringy" like a lot of fringe work you see on original Native American buckskin work of the 1800s.  If you haven't seen a copy of it, there is a great book called "Packing Iron" that has fantastic photos outlining the history of holsters.  You probably can take a gander at it on Amazon.  You can get lots of ideas of styles and ways you can alter/adapt them to your likeing.  Another site to look at is over on CassCity - go to their forums and look up the leathershop.  Lots of good fellas and good information along with photos of their work at times, etc. (nobody will hassle you if you go over there to take a look - just remember to come back to this board!   ;D )  I got back in to doing leatherwork a couple of years ago.  I've made hunting/possibles bags for yeqrs but then got interested in holsters, cartridge boxes, etc.  I winter in Arizona and took a class on tooling leather up at Tandy Leather in Tucson last year.  Unfortunately, my eyesight isn't the greatest so my tooling skills are lacking.  If you have a Tandy near you, find out if they offer classes.  You don't need to invest a lot to get started and if nothing more, you'd pick up some new techniques.  As far as the rough side of the leather showing - I'm pretty "utility" or "plain" in my likes.  I shoot BP revolver and I view the holster as a utility item to hold the pistol which will naturally get dirty from the fouling, etc.  I've been in to shooting BP over 35 years and I like my holsters, etc. to look "hand made" as they would have been - and even in the old west, there were harness makers and leather workers of all levels of ability.  As I said, the eyesight isn't what it used to be so once in a while there will be a flaw - I prefer to call it "character".   :)  My problem is that the leather work is habit forming and there just doesn't seem to be enough time to get all the projects you'd like to do, done - but hey - it's all about having fun anyway.  Your holsters sound really nice and I know your buddy is going to be excited when he gets his!  Good luck and have fun!  Kindest regards!   :)
If a pair of '51 Navies were good enough for Billy Hickok, then a single one on my right hip is good enough for me.  Besides, I'm probably only half as good as he was anyway . . . . now . . . how do I load this confounded contraption?

Hiram's Rangers - Badge #63