Author Topic: for you .444 lovers  (Read 1296 times)

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Offline Lloyd Smale

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for you .444 lovers
« on: October 21, 2003, 12:29:51 AM »
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Offline Mikey

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Good Article
« Reply #1 on: October 21, 2003, 05:57:56 AM »
Lloyd, thanks.  I just read another article in Am Rifleman, I think, about loading for the 444 and the author appeared less informed that Anderson, which is too bad because Anderson's article is what we should be reading about the 444.  

I noticed Anderson was leaning toward a 365-70 grain bullet.  Buncha years ago a friend cast some 43 Spanish bullets for me at 375 gn and swaged them to .430 - nice slugs, seated and chambered well but no accuracy without gas checks and from one of the origianl 444s Anderson wrote about.  Looks like there might be more than just a few heavy loads for the 444.  I would like to see how some of those, possibly in roundnose, would perform at long range accuracy.  Now, change the profile of that 375 to a nice big metplat and a gas check we might get some wickedly effective hunting heavyweights for that Triple 4.  Moose und Squirrel anyone?  Thanks Lloyd.

Offline Winter Hawk

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for you .444 lovers
« Reply #2 on: October 21, 2003, 07:48:22 AM »
Interesting.  I remember being enamoured by the .444 when it came out, but all the reviews said it would do better with a 350 grain bullet and no one was making one back in the late '60s.  

I got a Numrich Arms kit for a Remington Rolling Block.  The kit was the barrel with sights, forearm, and stock, choice of .444 or 45-70.  I bought mine in .444.  The other choice was full octagonal (Buffalo Hunter) or half octagon/half round (Creedmore) for the barrel.  Mine was the full octagon, 1 1/8" across the flats IIRC.  Cost was $7.50 + postage for the Remington (.43 Egyptian surplus) and $44.50 + postage for the kit.  This was early in 1968, before Kennedy took revenge on gun owners for the deaths of his brothers.

The rifle shot fairly well, but it was not something you would want to pack around all day!

-Kees-
"All you need for happiness is a good gun, a good horse and a good wife." - D. Boone

Offline Lloyd Smale

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Re: Good Article
« Reply #3 on: October 21, 2003, 12:06:01 PM »
Im a little predudiced as Al is my best friend but he really does know what hes talking about. The bullet that has worked best for me is the 340 grain lfn from ballistic cast it feeds great is accurate and hits hard and penetrates like theres no tommarow. I shoot it in my .444 alot though I have never killed anything with it. I am mostly a handgun hunter. I have killed dear and black bear with that bullet in my .44 mags and it has work more then great!
Quote from: Mikey
Lloyd, thanks.  I just read another article in Am Rifleman, I think, about loading for the 444 and the author appeared less informed that Anderson, which is too bad because Anderson's article is what we should be reading about the 444.  

I noticed Anderson was leaning toward a 365-70 grain bullet.  Buncha years ago a friend cast some 43 Spanish bullets for me at 375 gn and swaged them to .430 - nice slugs, seated and chambered well but no accuracy without gas checks and from one of the origianl 444s Anderson wrote about.  Looks like there might be more than just a few heavy loads for the 444.  I would like to see how some of those, possibly in roundnose, would perform at long range accuracy.  Now, change the profile of that 375 to a nice big metplat and a gas check we might get some wickedly effective hunting heavyweights for that Triple 4.  Moose und Squirrel anyone?  Thanks Lloyd.
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Offline BoarHunter

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444M on roebuck deer and wild boar
« Reply #4 on: October 22, 2003, 02:04:38 AM »
I posted this last week and since shot an other roebuck deer with the 265g reload. It was running and had just the time to put the Docter red dot
on the shoulder and shoot before it disappeared in heavy brush.
The bullet made tremendous damage, hitting the left shoulder bone making an almost palm sized hole  in the chest left side, a smaller one in the right side and breaking the right shoulder  before existing. I did not recover the bullet.
Definitely I need something that expands less as I am pretty sure the same hit on a big wild boar may not drop it on its track.
I do not want to go for a higher bullet weight wich would be slower, for the reason explained below and will try Sierra match FPJ 250. True they are not designed for expansion out of a revolver but at 444 speed I am pretty sure they will, enough anyway and lead show up at the top of the bullet .
Really wish Hornday makes a stronger 265g.



This is my third year drive hunting wild boar and roebuck deer with a Win94 big bore (classic 20inch barrel) in 444M.
I have stopped using the Rem factory for reloads using a 265gr Hornady bullet on top of N130 powder (max load from Vithavuori tables)
I get the same speed with these reloads than the Rem factory (680m/s, 2300fps in the Win 94) so 10% more energy as the bullet is that much heavier.
Roebuck are rather small and light (20-30Kg, ~65lbs) so anything will drop them. Nevertheless, I noticed on the few I shot with the Rem, expansion was dramatic and starting immediately. The entry hole was almost as big as the exit.

Whitetail are a tad bigger and stronger but for sure the Rem factory will be fine.

Wild boars are an other story. They are very strong and I would not use either the Rem factory or any reloads with pistol bullets or even the 270 Speer. I tried the 270 Speer but the jacket is very thin and they expand too early and violently.

Sofar I dropped 3 small boars (50kg, 110lbs), two in the heart area, bullet went throug and in one case broke the shoulder and one this weekend in the neck, massive damage inside but a small bullet size exit hole with almost no blood while the entry hole was bleeding.
I came to the conclusion that even the Hornady bullet expands too early.
I could try heavier bullet but OAL in the Win is limited and I would not like a bullet that is too slow and therfore to have to give more lead.
I wonder what would happen with a very big boar hit in the shoulder area and really think a tougher bullet would be needed. I am even considering FMJ used for silhouette.
From a stand or stalking, I use a Sako in 300W and this summer had to finish one (110kg, 240lbs) that was still alive after having been hit in the shoulder that was smashed by a 180gr Nosler partition I recovered against the backbone it failed to break.

I you know stronger bullet than the Hornady, let me know. I wrote them asking if they plan to manufacture 44 bullets using their Interbond process but did not get an anwer yet.

I wish to share info with anyone hunting big wild boar too.

Offline Litefoot

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for you .444 lovers
« Reply #5 on: October 22, 2003, 06:52:52 PM »
I would be interested in your comments concerning the action, durability and accuracy of the Win 94 Big Bore. You can find good deals on these, but I've heard many negative comments about the newer Win94 levers. What is your take? Thanks.
"Other evils there are that may come...Yet it is not our part to master all the tides of the world, but to do what is in us for the succour of those years wherein we are set, uprooting the evil in the fields we know..."-Aragorn, King Elessar

Offline Lloyd Smale

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for you .444 lovers
« Reply #6 on: October 23, 2003, 12:00:40 AM »
nothing at all wrong with the win big bores
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Offline Inpursuit

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Lead Bullet for 444
« Reply #7 on: October 23, 2003, 03:15:22 AM »
I use the Lee 310 gr cast bullet with gas checks in my Win BB 444 Classic.  Loaded to a bit over 2000 fps it is death and distruction, you should get complete penetration and a good blood trail from both sides of whatever you pull down on.

 I cast mine and drop them into cold water which hardens them quite a lot.  There is no leading that I can detect.  This load is a bit stiff on recoil but if you don't want recoil get a little gun.

Offline Siskiyou

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for you .444 lovers
« Reply #8 on: November 16, 2003, 04:47:03 PM »
Lloyd:  I notice in the link article you posted it mentions firing .44 mag handgun ammo in the .444.  Will the handgun ammo feed from the magzine in the Marlin rifle or does the handgun ammo need to be hand fed?

Siskiyou
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Offline Lloyd Smale

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for you .444 lovers
« Reply #9 on: November 20, 2003, 08:08:39 AM »
feeds in mine with lfns
Quote from: Siskiyou
Lloyd:  I notice in the link article you posted it mentions firing .44 mag handgun ammo in the .444.  Will the handgun ammo feed from the magzine in the Marlin rifle or does the handgun ammo need to be hand fed?

Siskiyou
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Offline eroyd

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for you .444 lovers
« Reply #10 on: November 20, 2003, 01:20:11 PM »
Is 'lfns' a bad thing? I tried 44 mag ammo in my 444 and ended up with a double feed jam. They fired OK single loading them but accuracy was crappy.

I had great results using hard cast 310 gr's from that inexpensive Lee mold in 444 and 44. Gas checked and lubed only. In a microgroved barrel on the 444!

Offline Lloyd Smale

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« Reply #11 on: November 20, 2003, 11:52:05 PM »
each gun will be a little different as to what it feeds. Mine has done well with the 340 lfn seated out to the second crimp grove but I dont think id rely on the feeding in a hunting situation.
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Offline eroyd

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for you .444 lovers
« Reply #12 on: November 21, 2003, 04:08:12 AM »
LFN  Lead Flat Nose  :)  Sorry Lloyd, thought  lfn was one of those E-Lingo things I can never remember. Like LOL.

Offline Siskiyou

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for you .444 lovers
« Reply #13 on: November 21, 2003, 05:53:18 AM »
Guys:

"lnfs" had me going.  Good information.  The accuracy problem with lead bullets in the marlin barrel is something to think about.  Might be okay as emergency ammo.  But will the "ten" minutes of mad bear do in a jam.  I quess I need to tell the friend to Silver soldier a bayonet lug to the side of the barrel.  I have suggested other options but he is locked into .44 Mag because he already has one.  The rifle is the issue.  Hmm, a .444 Winchester?

Siskiyou
There is a learning process to effectively using a gps.  Do not throw your compass and map away!

Boycott: San Francisco, L.A., Oakland, and City of Sacramento, CA.