45-70 data

[simplicity]

I have just bought myself a stainless marlin guide gun in 45-70, I plan on reloading for it 'm not new to reloading just new to this caliber. I mainly shoot 338 win mag and 500 smith so recoil is something I'm not worried about at all. My problem is I want to load up to the higher end of the spectrum with the 45-70 but the data I've been finding has me a bit bewildered according to the hornady loading manual 6th edition  (I'm going to use this bullet and charge as a reference to what I'm refering to) I decided to go with h4198 and in the hornady manual for the 1895 action the charge velocity  for a 350 grain rn bullet with this powder starts at 37.1 grains at a vel. of 1400fps and their max load is 48.4 grains at a vel. of 1900 fps. which here is where my delema starts. If you go to the hodgon website  for the same powder and bullet their starting load is 48.5 grains at a vel. of 2036fps and their max load is 54.0 grains at a vel of 2191 fps. I know loads should be worked up  but that is a huge difference and the hodgon loads are more to what I'm looking at loading just wondering are these loads safe? They were listed for lever actions  but just the hodgon mid range load is a bit way over maximum of hornadys. I know in the past alof of hornady data and the results I have gotten through my chrono, my chrono always showed atleast 200 fps below what hornady claims  they would do with the load listed out of the same length barrel.  I have always used the hodgon dats when I worked up 500 smith loads and they have always been quite acurate according to load velocity. But like I said that is a huge difference in charge weights. Is there anyone out there that loads in the hodgon range for the same gun or a marlin 1895 in general? Or can someoen out there throw me a bone on what's safe in the to use in the guide gun. I would definetly enjoy getting the performance of the hodgon. Thankz for any info.

[Redhawk1]

Just remember, each book is going to be different. A lot of them play it on the safe side of the loading spectrum. Also they give you load data for there specific bullet as well. As where powder makers like Hodgdon will have higher charge weights.

I buy several reloading manuals and I don't hot rod my 45-70 to much. I am in the 1900 fps range with a 405 gr. bullet, using H 322, which by the way is also a great powder for the 45-70, as is IMR 4198 and H 4198. 

I also compiled a lot of load data from other people, as to what they shoot in there specific gun, and if it falls within safe reloading practice, I give them a try for accuracy.  The cool thing about the 45-70, even the lighter loads will kill anything walking in North America.

[mechanic]

Dittto's on what Redhawk said.  Pushing a heavy bullet at anything over 1200 fps will penetrate plenty.  It may be slow on the go, but when it gets there it's carrying a lot of energy.

I read an article once where they shot the 45-70 and used all type of instruments to measure it.  At 1000yds. it still carried more energy  than a 45acp at the muzzle.

IMO, your Marlin will like middle of the road loads for accuracy more than hot ones, but you will determine that quick enough!

Have fun, it's a fun caliber.

Ben

[DennisB]

Can't help much on the powders, I mostly use 3031 and Rx7 with either 300 HPs, 405 cast or 540 Postels my three rifles (a No. 3, a Buff Classic, and an 1895 Cowboy).  You mentioned using a 350 grain RN, and I seem to recall from back when I got my first Marlin that the Hornady 350 RN was a bit too long to function through some lever guns.  Just a thought, you might check your OAL before loading up a batch--
Good shooting,

[Cecil]

Sim  I use Hodgdon's data In my guide gun  and it works fine ,But I rarely load to max !

[heavybullets]

Sim
Just my 2 cents worth, I've loaded hodgdon max loads in a 1895 also. As long as components are identical you should have no problem. When I load I pay attention to chamber pressures more than anything else. Hodgdon lists chamber pressures unlike other reloading guides. 1895's can shoot 45,000cups all day but above that the rifles start to suffer and when much above that they come apart. Go to the Marlin gun sites for in-depth discussions of pressure limitations of the the 1895 family. They post  pictures of rifles whose owner's didn't pay attention to pressure limitations. Stay below 45k and enjoy

[Tn Jim]

I have a 45-70 barrel for my Encore. I have two loads I use quite a bit. One is a 350 grain Hornady, the other is a Cast Performance 405 grain flat nose. Load both to between 1700-1750 fps using RE-7. The local range use railroad ties for target frames. The CP cast bullets were getting complete pass throughs on the RR ties at 100 yards. I haven't tried that test on the Hornadys yet, but I think they would do the same. Both loads have a healthy thump out of a 7.25 pound rifle, but they are deadly.

[Dances with Geoducks]

I use darn near the same load.

40gr Reloader 7, 405gr RN Lyman cast. 1700-1750

We use 10 in long wet cedar logs as a pass though test.

The first one it went seven inches in, hit a knot, and blow a 3 inch hole out the side.

The second one when clean through the log

I can shoot it one handed, so I dont think there is much recoiled

[sabretip]

I shoot 420 grain gas checked cast bullets at 1940 fps. out of a Browning B-78 45-70, I get under an inch with this load. I shoot the same bullet with 40 grains of the same powder out of the Marlin.

[BBF]

FYI
Hornady's350 gr RN is made for the 458 Win Mag. Accoring to Hdy they want 1800 fps MV minimum.

If you want to keep the V and recoil down, use the Rem 405 gr or the Speer 400 FN

 I like the faster powders, RL-7, the 4198's or 2400  for real real slow, Trail Boss will work.

[quickdtoo]

This is from the Hornady 6th edition, 45-70 (1895 Marlin), bottom of page 593:

....while the 350 grain Round Nose is an excellent choice for anything form black bear to moose.

Their 1895 Marlin data shows both the 350gr RN and FP with muzzle velocities from 1400fps to 1900fps.

Tim

[BBF]

    

From the SeventhEdition on the very bottom of Page 106 it gives the muzzle velocitiy range 1800-2900 fps

 BTW A 45 cal bullet at 1400 fps will give a good size hole any way you look at it IMO

[jimone]

I load the Hdy 350 RN to 2000 fps with Varget for my Handy Rifle, a little hotter than I would go in a Marlin. Ranch Dog made a couple lead bullet molds for the Marlin, Lee is hopefully going to put them in their standard offerings. Check out these, pressure tested in a Marlin.

http://www.ranchdogmolds.com/

[NickSS]

Most good loading manuals have three loading levels for the 45070 cartrige.  Basically they are for Trapdoor Spring fields and other old single shots which top out at the Sami spec of 28,000 psi.  Then there are loads suitable for Marlin, and Winchester 1886s which top out at 40,000 psi and loads listed for Ruger #1s which top out at 50,000 psi.  Depending upon power and bullet of choice you can get Marlin loads that will drive bullets up to around 2000 fps.  These loads are far from fun to shoot unless you like being beat up.  They are far from fun to shoot.  A good load that will definitely kill most anything on this continent is a Remington 405 gr sp over 54 gr of IMR 4895.  If you want to have the maximum fun with this load shoot it from a bench rest but make sure you have a solid hold on the fore stock and pull it well into your shoulder.  I guaratee that it will make your 338 Mg seam like a pop gun.

[HuntAway]

My 1895CB absolutely loves 47 gr IMR3031 with the 405 gr Remington's. Scoped it shoot's under an inch c-c at 100yds and just over an inch outside measurement. I wouldn't have believed it if I hadn't done myself.

They're scooting out around the 1650 fps range.

HA

[LEADMELTER]

I shoot a Marlin lever action 45-70 Cowboy and cast my own bullets and reload all that i shoot. I shot a cow elk with it last year at 165 yds using 330 gr HP cast bullet with 37 gr of IMR4198 and about a grain of pillow stuffing wad. The cow took a step just as I shot and it hit her in the flank and took out her spine and knocked her over on her side.

I only shoot trap door loads and only cast bullets in my Sharps and Marlin. I have found them to be more then adequate for hunting and target shooting.

I also killed a jack rabbit at 80 yrds with the same bullet and 13 grns of Unique powder with the pillow stuffing wad. From where the rabbit was sitting to where it ended up was about 2 feet.

I load plinkers in 330 grn HP, 405 grn and 500 grn for plinking and just a day of enjoyable shooting. They work well in both guns.

[Swampman]

If a Trapdoor load won't do the job then I don't want to make whatever I'm shooting mad.  I use 34 grains of IMR-4198 and a 405 grain Remington bullet.

[shot1]

I have a buddy that shoots the suggested hunting load from the Sierra #4 manual for the 1895 Marlin in a full size 1895 Marlin.
51.8 grs IMR 4198 and the Sierra 300 gr HP, 2150 fps. You better have your boots on good when you squeeze one of them off or it will lift you out of them. It is devastating on deer.

I shoot a Sharps in 45-70 with black powder loads. For hunting deer I have used the Lyman #457193 that drops from wheel weights with a little tin added at 418 grs. I use 70 grs FFG Goex with a wax paper milk carton wad under the bullet with about 1/10 inch compression on the powder. It averages 1400 fps. I have not recovered a bullet yet from any deer I have shot. One was from chest through a ham and killed a 3" round tree behind it at 111 yards.

Like has been said I would start in the middle of the road Hodgdon loads and slowly work my way up. You will soon find that your little guide gun may pound on you quit a bit more than a full size 338 Win mag.  Boy was that an understatement 

[LEADMELTER]

THIS YEAR I WILL BE HUNTING ELK WITH MY COWBOY 45-70 AND WILL BE USING THAT 405 GR CAST BULLET WITH 34 GR OF IMR 4198.

I STILL NEED TO FINE TUNE THE LOAD BUT THE WEATHER HERE IN AZ IS JUST NOW STARTING TO GET COOL ENOUGH TO GO SHOOT COMFORTABLY. I HAVE BEEN OUT THERE SHOOTING IN THE 104 AND 105 TEMPS. THATS HOT......

[doeroller]

  I just got back from Manitoba and was lucky enough to take a 300lb plus bear. I used a 325 Hornady Flextip pushed to 2400fps with a stiff charge of H-4198 out of my 1885 Winchester. I hit the bear at 40 yds tight behind the shoulder. I found the bullet in the hide in the offside leg. The bullet mushroomed perfectly and held the core. Don't sell the FTX short if your looking for a little flatter trajectory. Great bullet.

[LEADMELTER]

I TOOK THE 405 GR LOAD WITH 34 GR OR IMR4198 TO OUR RANGE IN THE DESERT AND THEY DO VERY WELL AS LOADED. I WILL NOT HAVE TO TWEAK THEM AT ALL. I HAVE NOT DOUBT THAT THIS WILL PUT AN ELK DOWN EASILY. I SURE HOPE I CAN RETREIVE A BULLET THIS YEAR I WOULD LIKE TO SEE HOW IT PERFORMS AFTER CONTACT.

MY 500 GRN LOADS W/ 44 GR OF IMR 4895 FOR THE SHARPS RIFLE PERFORMED PERFECTLY AT 100, 185 AND 300 YDS AS WELL. THIS WILL BE MY BUFFALO LOAD FOR MY BUFFALO HUNT IN JAN 2012. 

AT THE 185 YRD AREA I HIT A PLASTIC SOAP JUG ABOUT 1 GAL SIZE AND IT TOOK OFF BACK PAST THE 200 YRD AREA BEFORE IT CAME BACK TO EARTH. VERY IMPESSIVE.

THAT DAY I SHOT JUST OVER 100 RNDS OF HUNTING LOADS AND MY SHOULDER SURE DID COMPLAIN BY THE TIME WE WERE DONE.

[shot1]

Past recoil shield.    I made me one out of closed cell foam and ballistic nylon cloth and a belt cut off an old fanny pack. Never leave home with out it for shooting the big boomers. You know smokeless powder is a passing fad! You better go to black powder or your Sharps might run away from home because of mistreatment of not feeding it what it needs to live well.  No Buff needs to be disgraced by being shot with smokeless powder out of a Sharps. Can you tell that I like black powder?