Author Topic: Mark II vs. Model 41 (Read 1884 times)

MatadorMkV · « **on:** November 30, 2003, 07:13:26 AM »

Hello Guys,
The "boss" finally gave me the ok to put down the cash for a new Smith & Wesson Model 41. I was feeling pretty comfortable about my decision to purchase one after reading some reviews and talking to some local shops that say it's the best thing since sliced bread. Now, after reading some of the posts here, I'm not so sure it's the way to go...and for $715 (best price I could find) I want to be SURE it's the way to go!!

I already have a stock Mark II with the 6-7/8" tapered bull barrel and like it, but wanted something with a little more mass maybe for bullseye shooting.

I am now thinking about just buying a stainless govt. model with the 6-7/8" bull barrel and buying the trigger kit and grip from Valquartsen and that easy field stripping kit.

I have also been considering the Buckmark and the Sig/Ham. Trailside. I DID read on here that a guy had a lot of trouble with a Trailside and that the service from Sig was horrible.

Soooo....I was wondering what your thoughts are on these pieces:

Smith 41
Browning Buckmark
Sig Trailside
Ruger MkII

Thank you very much guys!
Russ

TC Shooter · « **Reply #1 on:** November 30, 2003, 12:37:49 PM »

Well I can give you my 2 cents worth since I own both pistols. The 41 out of the box has a trigger that is much better than any of the Ruger MKIIs - mine is a fairly crisp 2.5 lbs. I could not use the MKII for bullseye out of the box - the trigger was simply too stiff for one-hand shooting.The fit and finish of the 41 is far better as it should be for a $700 pistol. The takedown is a lot more simple than the Ruger and it is far easier to change barrels - for instance , if you wanted one barrel with optics and one with open sights.

A friend of mine who was a national champion 22 pistol shooter at Camp Perry convined me to go with the 41 for bullseye competition. His comment was that the 41 was a more "ergonomic pistol" as compared to the MKII. This may not be true for all shooters but there is a definite difference between the feel of both pistols.

Really a hard call. My Ruger has been worked on by Clark and has an extremely crisp 28 oz trigger and has been drilled and tapped for the Ruger scope base. Have a set of 1" and 30 mm rings. All of which still is considerably less than a 41. I could get a very nice set of Nil target grips and still be under the 41 price.

Have heard that the 41 is more finicky towards what ammo it likes. I have pretty much settled on CCI Std Vel and it is extremely reliable and accurate so that is what I use almost exclusively.

If the 41 "fits" you better and you are going to get into sanctioned competition you will probably appreciate the 41. Or if you enjoy owning a well made handgun. I cannot honestly say I shoot significantly better with the 41 than I do with my MKII. My MKII is not stock of course - plus I have fired more rounds through the MKII than any other gun I have ever owned. Out of the box there would be no contest - the 41 mainly because of the trigger ,is far better for something like bullseye. I am glad to own both pistols!

MatadorMkV · « **Reply #2 on:** November 30, 2003, 01:38:43 PM »

Thanks for the great input. What would you say the trigger pull of the 41 can be adjusted to? Is there any reason to have any trigger work done on the 41 or is it really that good that it can be left alone. I love the pull of my 1911's Videki (sp) trigger, so it would be nice to have a gun that comes close to the same feel. Do you own the 5-1/2" version or the 7"? I found a shop about an hour away from me that has both in stock, so I may look at them tomorrow.

Thanks,
Russ

TC Shooter · « **Reply #3 on:** November 30, 2003, 02:41:07 PM »

There are shops like Clark that can work on the Smith 41 trigger but for most I would say the trigger is very "shootable" out of the box. As far as I know there is no way for the user to adjust weight of pull - there is an overtravel stop that is adjustable. If you want to use the pistol for sanctioned bullseye competition I believe 2 pounds is the minimum allowable trigger pull weight for a 22 pistol. My 41 is at 2.5 pounds. My Ruger is actually too light if this is the case. My 41 is the 5.5" version. With dot sight it is a fairly heavy 22.

Maybe the shop that has the 41s has 22 snap caps or "dummy rounds" so they can allow you to test the trigger to see if it is to your liking. Not sure if the 41 is designed to be safely dry fired without the fring pin hitting the breechface - I suppose I could look it up in the manual!

reelhook · « **Reply #4 on:** December 01, 2003, 06:42:39 AM »

simply the BEST 22 auto on the market

Chris · « **Reply #5 on:** December 01, 2003, 02:19:12 PM »

MatadorMKV:

I'm in the same boat as you are...I want to upgrade as well and I am on the fence too. Right now, I'm looking at the Model 41 and the Pardini. Best I can find is a S&W at/about $800...and the Pardini at $1050. Your $715 for the S&W is a real deal from my perspective (CA).

I've gotten mixed reviews on the S&W...nothing but favorable reviews on the Pardini. Yes, there's some $'s difference between the two but this is going to be my last .22 handgun purchase for a while (at least that's what I keep telling my wife :wink: ). Anyway, I see more serious bullseye shooters at the club opting for the Pardini, than anything else right now...for what thats worth.

BTW, I currently shoot a slab-sided Ruger Govt. Model, with all of the bells and whistles. Volquartsen trigger, extended releases, grips....the whole ball of wax. It's a MUCH better gun than when I first bought it...and it will put rounds through the same hole at 20yds if the "operator" was good enough to hold the gun in position. The Ruger gets a bit heavy for me over the course of an evening...but a little weight-training wouldn't hurt. The upgrades did put another $175 on top of the NIB gun cost (less ultradot). Your $715 isn't that far from the cost of a Ruger Comp with upgrades...and you'll probably end up with an argueably better gun from what I have gleaned from this site.

Let me know what you decide to go with...as I am going to take the plunge by mid-January (I hope). Whatever your decision, I'm sure you'll be happy with the results.

Be Safe! ...Chris

Questor · « **Reply #6 on:** December 01, 2003, 03:26:07 PM »

It depends on what you want to do with it. I think a Browning Buckmark is still a better choice than the Ruger. The Rugers are such tinker toys. People think they're getting a good deal, but end up putting in so much money for improvements that it's an expensive gun before all the spending is over. If it's got to be one of the two, consider a used model 41, they go for about $500 to $550.

MatadorMkV · « **Reply #7 on:** December 01, 2003, 07:03:40 PM »

Hello Folks!
Well, after riding my Softail over 100 miles in freezing temps to a shop that had all of the pieces in question, I finally ended up with the Model 41 with the 7" barrel.

I learned a lot as the salesman (Greg) seemed to know quite a bit about all of these.

The Hammerli actually didn't seem too bad, although it looks a lot beefier in pictures than it really is. The trigger felt pretty nice, but I just wanted something with a bit more weight. I can see where the slide stop MAY cause a problem. It barely catches when the gun is new! I took a close look at it only because I know someone here had a problem with theirs.

Turns out that Greg is bulls-eye shooter, so he brougt out a few other pistols just to let me see what else is available. One of these was a new (I think) Kimber model that looked just like a 1911, but really didn't even come close to the feel. It really didn't do anything for me, but what do I know...it may be a great gun.

He also had what he called one of the last Hi Standards. He just showed me how the later ones weren't quite as good as the older models. I guess they did some things to cut corners near the end?

I ended up paying $759 for the Smith. I really could have got it for a bit less by ordering it from another dealer, but I hate to do that. There's something to be said for a shop that will take their time with you (over two hours!) to help you out and answer questions. I traded my Ruger MkII to help soften the blow by $175...probably a mistake, but it's gone now! Heck, they had a new one there for $250, so I didn't think the trade offer was all that bad.

Now for one more favor if you don't mind. I got the 7" for the sight radius, but I LOVED the feel of the 5-1/2" barrel. It gives the already solid piece a VERY solid feel...more 1911 ish I guess. This decision probably took the better part of that 2+ hours believe it or not! I knew that whatever barrel chose, I'd walk out of there wishing I would have chosen the other. Finally, Greg said "You know you can always order the other barrel if you want." I see that you can get the short, heavy barrel directly from Smith...part#311520000 for $263, but is there a place that would have it for less since that is retail? Can I just get it from any dealer or do you guys know of a good place? Greg mentioned a place called champion shooters supply (or something like that).

Thanks again...sorry for being so long winded,
Russ

Questor · « **Reply #8 on:** December 02, 2003, 03:11:11 AM »

You got a good gun that will serve you well. The Euro guns are a refinement that you can get into if you decide to later on. The Hammerli is an excellent pistol and is by no measure inferior to anything else that is made for bullseye or sport pistol.

The model 41 with the 7" barrel is really a different gun compared to the 5.5" model. The balance and the grips are different and that makes all the difference in the world. The 5.5" model is probably more popular with bullseye shooters today because they balance better when used with an optical sight. If you decide to change later, you can get a replacement barrel, either from S&W, or from Gil Hebard, or Champion Shooters Supply (from which you need to buy targets.) So don't regret the purchase of a 7" model.

Use CCI standard velocity ammo. Do not bother with other ammos because the 41 may not feed them reliably. You can also use the $300 per case (of 5000) European ammo, like RWS Rifle or Eley yellow Target Pistol. This is no liability because CCI Standard is cheap and very good. If you do have feeding problems, put a small drop of gun oil on the top round in the magazine before chambering it.

You'll really like the ease with which the 41 can be cleaned and lubricated.

I'm glad to see that you opted for something decent.

ftstinyc · « **Reply #9 on:** December 05, 2003, 12:47:44 PM »

I have about 700 rds thru my 41 7" smith. the trigger just seems to get
better and better. As far as ammo the cci std is very good but the K-mart
dynapoints are just as good in my 41 and at half the price. I understand
that some wal-marts have dynapoints now and they are a lot cheaper
than k-mart. K-mart is $12.99 plus tax and wal-mart is $9.63 plus tax.
This is for a 500 rd bulk pack. I have shot other ammo more accurate but
not by much and they were way more expensive. You also can get a barrel
from smith without the rear sight for I think in the $180 range. This is the
5 1/2 barrel that is setup for scope only. I have a 2-6 bushnell trophy
scope on mine and can shoot half inch all day long at 25 yds. with a rest.
I need a scope because I am 64 years old and don't see as well as I use
to. You will love the gun.

MatadorMkV · « **Reply #10 on:** December 05, 2003, 03:31:53 PM »

Thanks! I ordered the 5-1/2" barrel with sights two days ago. Spend, spend, spend! I'm sure I'll love it. I plan to build a larger bullet trap for the garage this winter. Hopefully I can get some shooting in soon.