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Offline ONE HOLE 4570

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SMALL BASE DIES
« on: March 28, 2010, 05:46:23 PM »
Been loading for years & now I am Going to start loading for 223 in an Ar & 3006 in a M1 Garand, Are small base dies needed for thesesemi auto's. Also what primers should you stay away from. I have some cci white box to use now but if they can't be had which sould not be used. I also no to use med burn rate powders for the garand & not over 168 gr bullet. Any pointers whould be appreciated, this will be my 1st semi auto rifle reloading
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Offline Dand

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Re: SMALL BASE DIES
« Reply #1 on: March 28, 2010, 11:35:35 PM »
I believe the Sierra loading manual has a section for the Garand and possibly for loading ARs in 5.56 too. Don't use that manual a lot so I'm not positive but you might want to check.
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Offline Dave in WV

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Re: SMALL BASE DIES
« Reply #2 on: March 29, 2010, 01:08:18 PM »
You can get a gas cylinder plug with jets that will allow you to use slower powder and or heavier bullets without stressing the Garand.

http://www.fulton-armory.com/MParts.htm#Parts
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Offline Doug B.

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Re: SMALL BASE DIES
« Reply #3 on: March 30, 2010, 01:00:31 AM »
My suggestion regarding the dies would be to borrow a set from a friend or try some reloads from a TRUSTED friend to see how the standard dies form the cartridges and how well they fit in the chamber of your firearm. Check cycling to be sure. If o.k. with the standard dies I would avoid the small base dies if not needed. No need to stress any part of your brass if not necessary.
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Offline Lloyd Smale

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Re: SMALL BASE DIES
« Reply #4 on: March 30, 2010, 02:34:18 AM »
heres my take on it. I load a ton of 223 and 308 for guns i may need to protect myself or my family and if nothing else want reliable for hunting. I dont load any ammo for a semi auto anymore without using small base dies. The most important thing in a gun like an ar is for it to go bang everytime and small base dies and trimming after every firing about insure this. You may get by without a small base die in your gun but if you have two or three in the same caliber ill about bet a dime to a dollar that at least one will choke once in a while on ammo that is not small base sized. Another problem with ars is they tend to get dirty fast because of there gas system and if you shoot a bunch eventually you will get a failure to feed because of crud and small base sized ammo will get you by a little longer before it happens.
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Offline 243dave

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Re: SMALL BASE DIES
« Reply #5 on: March 30, 2010, 02:41:58 AM »
I went back to standard dies for my ar after bending the decapping pin on a crimped primer(accidently picked up a piece of military brass at the range) >:(  .  The standard dies work fine for my ar.  Will they for yours?  Probably.  If you already have them I'd try them before buying small base dies and avoid working the brass anymore than needed.    Dave
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Offline 84Jim

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Re: SMALL BASE DIES
« Reply #6 on: March 30, 2010, 03:46:18 AM »
I load for 2 AR's and 2 M1's with standard RCBS sizing dies.  Never had a problem.  I'm not to picky about primers either and have used mulitple brands in both guns, including Federal.  Just be sure to seat them flat with the case bottom.  I typically use IMR 4895 for the M1 loads, and have been told not to go slower than 4064. 
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Offline Reverend Recoil

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Re: SMALL BASE DIES
« Reply #7 on: March 30, 2010, 04:31:28 AM »
For the M1 rifle I full length resize cases with a RCBS X-die and load with IMR 4064.  All large rifle primers have worked well.

I load 223 Rem for a White Oak Armament match AR15.  This rifle has a Wilde chamber.  I use Forster full length benchrest dies.  Top powders are Varget and Reloader 15.  Wolf, CCI, Federal, and Remington make good small rifle primers.  The word on the high power rifle firing line says to avoid Winchester small rifle primers.  They are softer and are easly pierced.  Three months ago I bought 2000 Winchester small rifle primers because they were the only ones availible.  So far they have worked with no problems.  I shot a 198-11X at 300 yds rapid fire with them.  My loads are well below maximum pressure limits.

Hornady's reloading handbook has a good collection of M1 and AR15 service rifle loads with all the best powders.
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Offline kctibs

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Re: SMALL BASE DIES
« Reply #8 on: March 31, 2010, 01:33:02 AM »
Been reloading for AR's for a long time and only have ever use FL dies never had a problem. If you only had one .223 I would go with a neck sizer dies. I agree with some of the other comments in no sense in stressing the brass anymore than you have to.
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Offline Lloyd Smale

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Re: SMALL BASE DIES
« Reply #9 on: March 31, 2010, 02:33:45 AM »
ill stand by my statement if crap ever hits the fan and you have to really rely on your gun and your far from your cleaning gear youll be glad you spend the extra 30 bucks for a set of dies. Another point missed here is if your like me and you pick up range brass that is fired in many differnt chambers you will no doubt eventually find some brass that after sizing wont fit your gun. A small based die about eliminates that problem. Id bet my house that if you dont sb size at one time or anohter in the life of your gun your going to have a round that doesnt go totaly into battery. Hopefully it wont happen at a time that really matters. if your the type that can live with an occasional failure use what you want. Me i expect my guns to go bang EVERYTIME clean or dirty wet or dry. 223 once fired brass is cheap enough where i could give a piddly **** if i get one more loading out of it because i worked it a little more. If you want an ar to run a 100 percent keep your brass trimmed and small base size your brass
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Offline 3006softpoint

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Re: SMALL BASE DIES
« Reply #10 on: March 31, 2010, 04:18:49 PM »
Lloyd have to agree with you! on both posts! I have 4 30-06s two savage bolts 1 rem 7400 1 rem 7600! I want to know they fit! So I small base them and then I know I can prime and load according to the rifle i'm working up a load for! Bolt, pump or auto they fit! Dale
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Offline huntducks

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Re: SMALL BASE DIES
« Reply #11 on: April 01, 2010, 08:32:18 AM »
I'm feel the same it only takes 1 case for a jam I load all my 223 semi auto or bolt W/sb die, I also have a 600 Rem in 243 that the chamber was so tight that it needed SB dies.
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Offline sk330lc

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Re: SMALL BASE DIES
« Reply #12 on: April 01, 2010, 08:54:47 AM »
Can you get away without using SB dies?  MAYBE.     I load for 4 diff. semi auto rifles.  I started out using STD. dies . Now all I will use is SB dies for them.  To many feeding problems for me..  
 
Lloyd  said it best !!!
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Offline Savage

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Re: SMALL BASE DIES
« Reply #13 on: April 01, 2010, 12:20:22 PM »
Oh yeah! Small base dies for my AR ammo! I learned that lesson a looooong time ago.
Savage
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Offline charles p

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Re: SMALL BASE DIES
« Reply #14 on: April 01, 2010, 01:23:52 PM »
I have a 1967 Rem 742 in 30-06 that works very well when fed trimmed brass formed in a RCBS Small Base die.
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Offline 223fan

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Re: SMALL BASE DIES
« Reply #15 on: April 03, 2010, 03:17:04 AM »
I use small base dies for my ar.The only feeding problems I've ever had with it was with some ammo that I reloaded with standard dies.I really do want it to go bang with every trigger pull.
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Offline briannmilewis

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Re: SMALL BASE DIES
« Reply #16 on: April 18, 2010, 03:33:05 PM »
Quote from: Doug B. on March 30, 2010, 01:00:31 AM
My suggestion regarding the dies would be to borrow a set from a friend or try some reloads from a TRUSTED friend to see how the standard dies form the cartridges and how well they fit in the chamber of your firearm. Check cycling to be sure. If o.k. with the standard dies I would avoid the small base dies if not needed. No need to stress any part of your brass if not necessary.

Try RCBS X-Dies for the 30-06 and 223. You trim your brass to min trim size once, fire the brass then set up the X-Die (a full-length sizer) on a fired case and then use the X-Die exclusively before each future reloading. The X-Die is different than just a full-length or small-base FL die. it manages to stop brass growth completely. Read a really good article where the author with a M1 went from 3-4 reloads to 11+ using the X-Die. So keep the loads less than max and see just how many reloads you can get out out of your 30-06 and 223 brass.

Graybeard was going to try the X-Die for us and report back. Many GBO forum members swear by the X-Die and there are a few where they did not work out. General consensus is a thumbs up for the X-Dies. X-Dies are available in both regular and small base, so you are covered either way.

Good luck, and if you go the X-Die route, report back sometime about the case life you are getting.  ;D
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