Author Topic: Opinions for next years muzzle loader (Read 1761 times)

volshooter · « **on:** November 05, 2003, 04:32:16 PM »

I'm tired of being out shot by the guys I hunt with. I have a .54 side lock CVA, a Knight Americian Knight and a Traditions lighting lighweight. None of these will group with the Remingtons, Encores or Savage MK11. I personally shot the Savage of one of my hunting pals last week and got under 2 inch groups at 100 yards. My best group with any of my muzzle loaders will only group at best 2 inches at 50 yards. I'm leaning towards the Encore and the smokless Savage. I like the smokeless, clean, accurate Savage. I don't really need the Encore since I have plenty of rifles. I would like to hear your experience with the Savage. I've only have the one friend with one and it shoots like a fine rifle without the mess. Looking forward to coments.
Rick

rollingb · « **Reply #1 on:** November 05, 2003, 05:20:50 PM »

I don't have a CVA "sidelock", but I git under 2" groups at 100 yards, and under 1" groups at 50 yards, off cross-sticks,... with my fullstock Early Hawken.

crow_feather · « **Reply #2 on:** November 05, 2003, 10:31:25 PM »

If they was huntin buddies, I'd show them how by gettin the biggest deer, or elk or whatever. Wouldn't it be better to show up with your old rifle and shoot tighter groups?

C F

Graybeard · « **Reply #3 on:** November 06, 2003, 07:17:31 AM »

Can't help but believe the rifles you have now can shoot that well WHEN you find the load they like. Just experiment with different bullets and powder combinations until you find what they like. You'll have to do it with any new rifle you buy if you want it to shoot like that also. Spend the money on bullets and powder and not on a new gun and you'll have a good shooting rifle and be ready to use it when season opens.

GB

bubba · « **Reply #4 on:** November 08, 2003, 03:15:29 PM »

you said it all there GB. Too many think it i slike stuffing a cartridge in and away you go. It takes time and a lot of patience at the range to get a muzzleloader ashooting like you want. But, when you get it done, you have a shooter.

volshooter · « **Reply #5 on:** November 08, 2003, 04:59:09 PM »

I've tried all of my muzzle loaders with .50/.45 sabots, .50/.44 sabots, several hard cast with loose bought sabots, pure lead R.E.A.L cast, and Buffalo bullets with loose Pyrodex, pellets and tripple seven, from 60 gr to 150 gr. None of these performs as well as I would like. One of the manufactures (Traditions) tested one of mine and quoted me a 3-4 inch 50 yard group was within their specs. Well that is not within mine. Common sense tells me a 3-4 inch 50 yard group equals a 6-10 group at 100 yards. That is unacceptable. I can shoot very good groups with the savage ML10 without the mess. Believe me, I've worked for several years to get the best performance from my muzzle loaders without sucess eventhough I've taken several deer with all three. Sometimes cheap guns shoot poor groups. I sighted in better than 90% of the muzzle loaders used in my group. It is tradition for me to test every rifle weeks before season since I have a place to shoot and can shoot respectable groups. I have tried and now after 7 or 8 years I'll be moving on to another long gun.
Rick

Triple Se7en · « **Reply #6 on:** November 09, 2003, 01:45:19 AM »

Volshooter

Why not discuss the Savage with those who shoot it.

http://www.dream-tools.com/tools/messages.mv?index+savagemuzzleloader

Snowshoe · « **Reply #7 on:** November 09, 2003, 02:49:00 AM »

Volshooter, I was ready to get a new muzzleloader a few years ago because of the same thing. I did a lot of reading, some heavy cleaning, and went out one more time. I had a little build up of Wonderlube fouling, that was causing troubles. That out of the road, I got down to 2" groups at 80 yards with patch and ball. I then tried Ball-ets and had a group of 6" using Pyrodex. On advice, I tried real black powder with the hollow based Ball-et and got my 2" group back. I was told the black powder explodes, flaring the bullet base into the riflings, and Pyrodex is a little more like a modern powder burn. The rifle I am using is a Lyman Deerstalker with a 1 in 48" twist, and open sights.
If you just want a new Savage, get it. You can sell the others to finance it. Good luck and happy hunting.

Super Rat · « **Reply #8 on:** November 17, 2003, 01:39:47 PM »

Those must be tiny deer if you must shoot 1 MOA to deer hunt.

My smooth bore musket shoots 5" at 75 yards, and any deer or elk within 85 yards of it is dead meat.

:-D

Wolfhound · « **Reply #9 on:** November 18, 2003, 03:23:03 AM »

Volshooter,
Are you using a scope? What load are you shooting out of the American Knight? That barrel is the same quality as my Disc Extreme and my wife's Wolverine. I can shoot groups under an inch from both of em. If you haven't already, try the 260 gr. Knight jacketed sabots and 100 gr of pyrodex RS or pellets. Make sure you use the same loading pressure from shot to shot and shoot off a decent rest.

I don't know what load your shooting out of your .54 CVA, but my .54 GPR groups at 2" (open sights off of shooting sticks) at 75 yards. .530 roundball and a .18 patch with 75 gr. FFG T7.

And BTW, I am probably getting a Savage as well this spring. :wink: I just love muzzleloaders! :grin:

volshooter · « **Reply #10 on:** November 18, 2003, 05:20:17 AM »

My old CVA .54 shoots better groups than the inliners I have. I use 120gr of Pyrodex under a soft handcast LEE mold R.E.A.L. bullet. I think it's a 320gr? Been so long since I bought the mold I've forgot. This load shoots better than I can hold but with age open sights are getting tough.
Rick

River runner · « **Reply #11 on:** November 18, 2003, 03:30:30 PM »

Volshooter, I've got a couple of those inlines, one is the old TC Scout, that I picked up new in the box last year (been discontinued for several years) in 50 caliber, It'll shoot the perverbial moa, also have a Gonic Arms barrel for my TC Contender, in .45 that will literally put 3 rounds in a raggedy one hole group at 100 yards, but I use my traditional percussion .54 Hawkins, with ball when it comes to filling the skillet with venison. It won't shoot near as tight a group as my inlines, kicks like hell to boot. Why? because it puts 'em down with authority, and I keep my shots within 75 yards, which I'm confident I can put that ball in the broiler room, 100% of the time, and have sufficient energy to anchor it. I'm a little set in my ways, and I have a lot of respect for Savage, but I just couldn't own a BP rifle that's made for smokeless, jest aint the same, but different strokes for different folks. RR:D

crow_feather · « **Reply #12 on:** November 18, 2003, 03:35:09 PM »

River runner,

I can only add an Amen to your sermon.

Well written

C F

volshooter · « **Reply #13 on:** November 19, 2003, 03:38:19 PM »

I like the side lock front stuffers too! Where I hunt in west TN, the deer usually can be got in the woods but sometimes they have to be field hunted. When your looking at deer in a 30+ acre field, and they bed in said field, sometimes a open sight smokepole is a handicap. One of they guys I hunt with can and has taken deer over 150 yds with his modern muzzle loader. That's something I won't try with open sighted arms. Sure would bite to have a nice 12 point strolling broadside at 150 yards and not have 100% faith in my rifle. In the woods I prefer that old .54 thumper as long as it's not over 75 yds. (Anything that close is gonna be freezer meat) This kinda reminds me of some of them po old northern boys who have to use shotguns to hunt. I've heard complaints because of the limited range of pumpkinballs. I figure someones gonna say just be a better hunter and get closer....well....sometimes ya just want as much advantage as ye can get looking over a bean field, 400 or 500 yards wide.
Rick