NEW GUY HAS A GOOD QUESTION ABOUT THE BARREL SIZE

[SLAVAGE]

WELL I STARTED RELOADING LAST YEAR AN A FEW MONTHS AGO IT DAWNED ON ME... A GOOD HAND LOADER ISENT A GOOD ONE UNLESS THEY HAVE A TC SO AFTER LOOKING AROUND AN ALL I DESIDED TO GET THE PISTOL GRIP AN FRAME WASENT SURE ON THE CAL I WANTED TO GET ALL SO THE RIFLE STOCK VERSION WAS 60$ MORE SO I LOOKED AT A FEW SIGHTS AN PUT 2 AN 2 TOGETHER  SAVE THE 60$ AN BUY A SYN STOCK FOR 32$ SIMS RECOIL PAD FOR 29$ AN A FORARM FOR 30$ AN BANG I GET TO SHOOT PISTOL AN RIFLE FOR 30$ MORE AN I GET THE SIMS RECOIL PAD ALL SO,
WELL ANY WAYS I HAD THE FRAME REG. AS A PISTOL AN BEING THAT I WORK FOR A SPORTING GOODS DEALER I ASKED A FEW COPS
OUT OF THE 10 COPS 2 BEING STATE TROP AN 1 BEING IN THE FIRE ARM TASK FORCE THEY ALL TOLD ME THEY WERE ALL 99% SURE SENCE I HAD IT REG. AS A HAND GUN EVEN WITH THE STOCK ON IT IT IS STILL A HAND GUN AN THE STOCK IS A ACCESSARY AS LONG AS U CAN SHOW RIGHT THER THAT IT IS REG AS A HAND GUN BEING IN PA WHEN U FILE YOUR 44-73 "" YELLOW PAPER"" YOU MUST FILL OUT ONE THAT GOS TO THE STATE POLICE SAYING ABOUT IT IS A HAND GUN WITCH I GET A COPY OF IT BUT THEY SAID U MUST HAVE THAT PAPER ON YOU AN HAVE THE PERMITE TO CARRY A HANDGUN IN PA THER IS A SPORTMEN PERMITE AN  A CARRY,
SO I ASK IS WHAT IS EVERY ONE ELSE THINK ABOUT THIS OR IS THER ANY ATF THAT READ THIS BOARD ALL SO I DID SEE THE PAPER FROM THE ATF SAYING A ""RIFE CARBINE"" HAVING 16 OR MORE INCHES OF BARREL BUT HENCH WHAT I WAS SAYING BEFORE IT IS A HAND GUN CAUSE I HAD TO REG. IT WITH THE GOV. AS ONE
SO I BLEAVE ALL SO A LOT OF POLICE  SAY IT WOULD BE A HANG GUN
CAUSE I WAS TOLD WHEN I GOT IT THAT ONCE I HAD A 12 OR 15 INCH BARREL ON IT NO ONE UNDER 21 COULD CARRY IT AROUND CAUSE I WAS A HAND GUN

SO PLEASE I ASK ALL FOR THER INPUT THANKS
DAVE

OH YEAH I FINALY GOT STARTING WITH THE BARREL COLLECTING
15' 454 WITH A FOLDER CHOC. STOCK ALL SO I GOT THE 450 MARLIN IN THE KATH. BARREL
GOD IM GONA BE SORE WHEN I SHOOT THAT BEING THAT IM 6'2 AN WEIGH 15O

[stumpy]

I am not exactly sure what your question is but If I understand it your are asking/saying that because you have the weapon registered as a hand gun then you can use a barrel shorter the 16" with the carbine/rifle stock. The answer is absolutly not unless you want to do some time in the federal system.  With the pistol grip on the weapon you can use a barrel of any lenght but once you place the rifle/carbine (shoulder fired) stock on the frame it becomes a rifle and MUST have a barrel lenght of 16" min. No state law can override a Federal law. Or to put it differently the ATF has jurisdiction in all 50 states and there rules/laws govern.

Good Shooting

[Flash]

I believe your question is that if you have it registered as a handgun, do you need a Sportsman permit if it's wearing a rifle stock and a 16"+ barrel? My answer is yes, the ATF has you on a technicality if you were to be involved in a tresspass crime or shooting accident with your firearm while hunting. I can't really see any other reason for you and your firearm to be investigated. I have a concealed carry permit so I cover my butt, regardless of what I hunt with. The sportsman permit only allows you to have the weapon outside your garments but a concealed carry permit allows you to have a handgun holstered inside your hunting jacket. I have 7 frames now and without research, I have forgotten what they were registered as so I just have a carry permit. Going from handgun to rifle is fine, a.k.a. carbine kit. Going from rifle to handgun I supose is the No No. Also a good point about the minor carrying the carbine too. Since your gun was registered as a handgun, I would imagine all rules apply, including transport laws.

[Graybeard]

You can call it whatever you want to call it but you dang well better not put a barrel less than 16" long on it while you have that rifle buttstock on it or you are in violation of federal law regardless of which state you live in.

As far as federal laws go (as I best understand it. I'm not a lawyer and DO NOT give out legal advice) you can list the frame only on the yellow sheet as a handgun and can use a handgun frame to make a rifle. But it is not legal so "most" say to do the reverse and make a handgun of a frame listed on yellow sheet as a rifle.

Now when you ask TC "if you get an answer" they will tell you ALL Contender frames are listed with the BATF as handguns. Personally I believe this story and I also personaly believe that is all that matters is what TC tells BATF. Each manufacturer has to report production to BATF as I understand it. They must list how many handguns, rifles and shotguns they produced during whatever period it covers. So if TC reports 100% of Contender production to BATF as handguns, then by golly they are all handguns. BUT if they report it as a rifle and you fill out a yellow sheet calling it a handgun I really think you're not on good solid ground. That's my opinion on this subject and we've sure tossed it around enough over the years for me to KNOW only one thing and that is that none of us can agree on what's legal and what's not. Neither it seems can TC or BATF.

GB

[Flash]

Graybeard, I managed to get lucky about 6 months ago and found a brand new Contender 223 carbine at the local hardware store that someone never picked up off lay-away. The 1994 price of $350 was the atractant but it was sold to me as a Thompson Center rifle. The receipt reads that and there was no paper work for a handgun registration filled out. The box has the usuall warning about smooth bores and less than 16" barrels but the label reads Carbine, not handgun. I can't see how they can sell a carbine and say it's a handgun. It's sort of like a 4 wheel drive sedan with an 8' bed.

[Graybeard]

I hear ya Flash. I dunno either. The more you dig into it the murkier the waters become. It is impossible to get a straight answer to the question no matter who you ask. As I said I don't know. I have an opinion but it is worth no more than anyone else's and may be wrong.

Just remember that as far as most everyone knows it is perfectly legal to turn a TC Frame that began life as a handgun into a rifle but not vice versa. So if TC reported the frame to BATF as a handgun it could still be sold later as a rifle legally but could also still be used as a handgun. BUT if in fact it really IS a rifle then IF you ever make it into a handgun you've violated federal law.

I sure wish there was a way to know but I sure don't think there is.

GB