Gunsmith Training??

[IATRKYHNTR]

I have wanted to learn to be a gunsmith for a long time now. I’m not sure where I want to go with the things I learn, but I still want to learn! Are there any schools that have gunsmith courses? How about those learn at home courses? Where did most of you get your training? Any info would be nice.

Thanks,
IATRKYHNTR
(Nathan)

[gunnut69]

Nathan
Being a proffessional gunsmith is a hard path.  The pay is short and only a limited (read small) number will even make a living.  First, yes, there are colleges that teach gunsmithing and I most heartily reccommend attending one.  Then a job with an established shop will provide the hands on knowledge and real world esperience needed.  I am not a full time smith.  I grew up poor and learned to fix things rather than have them fixed.  A love of guns and a passion for reading and books and guns(not necessarily in that order) drove me to gunsmithing.  I built my first rifle, a muzzle loader on the kitchen table.  I worked nights and found it best to work late on those nights when not at work as the table could be cleared before my wife could see the mess and object.  That was over thirty years ago and a carreer in Data Processing paid for my obsession..  Later after many many years the experience paid off a bit.  Over the years and thru much trial and error I've learned a bit.  There are better ways to obtain knowledge..  I'm retired now and really don't want to be a pro.  The moneys nice(mad money) but it takes away from my hunting.  Age and arthritis are fairly rapidly destroying my hunting so I may be left with only the gunsmithing..and some of that is painful(relief carving a muzzle loader!!).  Good luck and keep in touch..perhaps we can be of help, perhaps you can be of help to us..  the gunnut69

[williamlayton]

got ta love tha attitude.
blessings gn

[cjcocn]

Nathan

If you can, go to school (ie. physically be in school) rather than taking a learn at home course.  I am taking the Foley-Belsaw course right now, but it is so basic that I am barely getting anything from the material.

I was looking at the AGI site and it seems more comprehensive (and it had better be at ±$5,000!), so if you have no other choice you may want to explore that option.

There are many books out there that can help you with the knowledge aspect of it, (Gunsmithing by Roy F. Dunlap; Firearms Assembly/Disassembly - a series of books; Gunsmith Rifle/Shotgun/Handgun - another series; Accurizing the Factory Rifle; Firearms Bluing and Browning; Gunsmith Kinks I - IV; etc. .... you get the picture!), but what I am finding helpful in conjunction with these books is rolling up my sleeves and diving into it.  The only thing to remember is to read up on whatever you want to do and make sure that you do not present a faulty (ie. DANGEROUS) firearm once you are done.  Currently I am doing some of the easier stuff like refinishing stocks and metal, making simple repairs like replacing extractors, trigger housings, etc., and mounting scopes and sights ... oh yeah, and cleaning .... I am quite suprised at how many "problems" turn out to be the simple need for a thorough cleaning.

You can bring all of this together with the assistance of experienced fellas like Gunnut69.  Surf the web, bookmark all forums, info pages, manufacturers pages, etc. and tap into the experience that is out there.  One trick I learned for exploring forums is to do a search on the names that show themselves to be experienced - their posts are full of valuable information.

I only have the basics for tools right now, but am gathering them as I need them (ie. Lee-Enfield firing pin removal tool) and am researching the larger purchases (like bluing, blacking, and browning options) so that I only have to buy them once.

In closing: Yes, I am a greenhorn, but have always been more than willing to clean my own guns and try to figure out what may be wrong with them when they have acted up.  I have given myself 2 - 3 years of learning time - until then I am only starting to learn about it.

Geez I talk a lot once I get going .....  :grin:

Have fun with it, let it be a passion rather than a job, and you'll be amazing yourself before you know it .... er, right gunnut?

Later

[Sean]

Not knowing where you are kind of limits me in recommending a school, however I'll list some of the ones I know of.

Montgomery Community College, Troy, North Carolina (I went here)
Murray State Colege, Tishimingo, OK (My recommendation from knowing one of the instructors, and hearing about their facilities)
Trinidad, Colorado
Colorado School Of Trades
Lassen Community College (California)

I think their are more but I can't come up with any right now. Sean

[IATRKYHNTR]

Thanks for all the info, and advise guys. I am in Southern Iowa. I'm not sure if I will be able to go away for this. I love my job at the local Butcher shop. All though it wouldn’t be out of the question to go to school for this. (I’m 25 and should get some kinda degree some time, or so I’m told) I know one of the local community collages had a 2-year gunsmith coarse at one time, but no long offer it. I really don’t know where I want to go with this yet, but working in a gun shop would be my dream job. Right now the most it would be is a on the side business, if that. I want to know how to fix my guns, and some day build my own rifle. I have looked into a few of the Learn at home programs out there, but I’m not really sold on that, hands on has always been the best way for me to learn. From some of the post I have read on here Gunsmithing might not be a good field to try to start a business in, but I have always felt if a person has the desire and drive they can make it in anything. Heck if a guy can make it in farming these days I think any one can make it anywhere. If y’all don’t mind I have a few questions to start with.

1.   What books does every one feel are NEED to read books for any one wanting to learn to be a gunsmith?

2.   What are some easier things that a guy can learn to do from such books?

3.   What projects could a guy do on his own to help learn basic gunsmith skills?
(I have been thinking about putting a new custom barrel and stock on a 10/22, or rebuilding/refinishing a old Winchester leaver action rifle)

4.   Are there any web sites to find more info on gunsmithing?

Just for a lil back ground, I have been hand loading rifle and shot shells for about 8 years, I know how to mount a scope and bore site it, I helped my dad “bed” one of his rifles, and I know how to clean a gun.

I know there I will have MANY more questions about all of this, and I really want to thank you guys for taking the time to say what you have. You have no idea how much that helps! And how excited I am just thinking about this.

Thanks again,

IATRKYHNTR
(Nathan)

[williamlayton]

tha colorado one seems to have a very good reputation. yer right in your thinking, that ya have to prepare for your future. it is funny how we prepare for a course of action and as life takes its turns, we kinda follow, an fore we know it we find what we are really suited for. not all people end up where they trained to be, er jobs and careers. i know a guy that was trained to be an engineer and ended up a carpenter-an he is happy with the results.
you will do fine, your thinking pretty good.
blessings

[Sean]

ONe piece of advice I can give you is take at least a basic machine shop course, if you can, before you go off to school. I didn't and some of the stuff in my course would have been so much easier and taken less time to complete if I had.

As far as books, there are a few good ones like the Kunhausen (sp?) books on the: 1911, S&W Revolvers, etc. There are others that do have some good info like: Practical Gunsmithing, Tips and Projects for the Gunsmith, and of course the DBI Inc Firearms Disassembly Books.

One thing that will really help you learn to repair firearms is knowing how they work. One of our courses was in repair, a semester each on handguns and longguns. What we did was take apart and reassemble many times different types of firearms and study how the mechanisms work. If you know how a firearm is supposed to function then if there is a problem you can fix it. Sean

[savageT]

Nathan,
Sean is giving you some straight skinny on the basics.  Most Community Colleges and H.S.-Trade Schools offer "Machine Shop Practices" Courses (there are a series of these depending on how far you want to go), and also "Drafting/Machine Tool Design".  In these courses you get to know  the tools and equipment: lathes, surface and centerless grinders, drill presses and vertical milling machines and how to use them.  In the design courses you learn about precision measurement tools: ie. micrometers, vernier calipers, go-nogo gauges) and use the "bible" of all machinists....."Machinery Handbook".  Once you have some good machinery practices under your belt...........not a bad field to consider incidently!.....Then, get into gunsmithing,  which your instructors at school will help you find.  Best of Luck with your dreams!

Jim

[gunnut69]

Yu have gotten some really great advise and insight.  I started on about the same course you're on but younger.  I built my first stock(for a Stevens VisibleLoader at about 15) and that's been a lot of years ago..  Refinishing and cleaning guns that are failing are a large part of a smiths business unless you get into the custom building game.  Then a lot depends on what you build..  Most will do anything asked if it's withing their abilities..  Probably the most important thing you can learn is your own ability, and it's limits.  All have limits and the wisest are those who know their limits and how to stretch them.  It's most unwise to experiment with customer guns.  Buy project guns and learn with them.  The old mausers (Yugos and such) are learning chances.  I've a pre-64 Winchester featherweight in 243 in the vault.  It's really rough.  All there and original but rough.  Even had a side mounted scope at one time.  It was bought at a greatly reduced price and rehabbing it will make a profit(hope) and I will play with some new techniques in getting rid of those side mount screw holes..  Limit what you'll do until sure of yourself and ask if you have a problem, we all have them.  And for certain contact ATF and speak with them about getting a license before working on a customer's gun.  Gunsmiths must have an FFL even if they don't buy/sell weapons as a business.  Be legal!!!  You sound as if you may have the passion to make it in the business.

[IATRKYHNTR]

Thanks for all the info and words of support guys, it really is a help to drive me more towards all of this. I am waiting to hear back form one local collage about a Machine shop coarse. A small step in a long journey, but ya gotta start some where. I am also putting a few gunsmith books on order to. I really want to thank all of you again, and I hope to be on my way to being a gunsmith!

Thanks,
Nathan

[tw]

The advice you have received here is great.  I wish I had had this available when I started down the road you are considering.  In addition to the machinist training you might consider a welding course focusing on TIG welding and more importantly soldering, (silver soldering and the harder solders are extremely important and require more than a heat source and good intentions)  I tried gunsmithing for a living for about 3 years and found that I loved the work too much to do it for a living and took it back to a hobby level allowing me to pick and choose what I do.  I found that custom rifles were my bag as are customizing 1911 pistols.  I still truly enjoy serving the hunter with the drill and tap jobs and misc. repair work that finds it way to me.  as GN said it is a great source of "mad money" and I find it to be a wonderfully theraputic relief from day to day stress that finds us regardless of how laid-back we think we are.   Best of luck in you endevour and if I can be of any help please contact me anytime.  TW

[kevin.303]

i just signed up for the advanced course thru the modern gun school and it lookss to be very accurate and indepth. its about $1300-$1400 US i believe

[cjcocn]

Kevin .303

I checked out their site and that course looks pretty good compared to the one I signed up with.  While I will finish the one that I started, I may consider additional courses (although right now most of my learning is coming from supplemental books that I have purchased and the firearms that I am working on or have worked on).

If you don't mind, keep us posted as to how the course lays out for you .... I am watching this thread and will receive notifications of any postings.

Thanks

[John Traveler]

Ah, if only I could be young again and starting out!

You young fellers have the right idea: taking professional training and local shop courses.  Work on your own guns to keep it legal.

I would add the following:

Acquire the books AND take courses in the following subjects:

antique furniture refinishing.
basic woodworking with hand and powder tools.
woodcarving.
basic metallurgy, heat treating, welding, and soldering.
basic metal working with hand and power tools
basic chemistry.

If there was someone or something to blame for my lifelong pursuit of gun tinkering, it would have to be my high school shop teachers.  THEY did this to me!!!

engineering drafting
metal working
foundry
welding
woodworking
crafts

HTH
John

[gunnut69]

John
I too had one of those!!!  Only mine was a chemistry teacher with a bent for aercheology(sp)...  and muzzle loaders.  I got involved with them long before Misters Thompson and Center even thought about the Hawken..  I remember when Dixie was all there was!!  Was there for the first muzzle loader hunt in Missouri and the carried one of the first rifled weapons allowed on Fort Leonard Wood(at least legally).  Taught my self gunsmithing because I worked for the state of Missouri(lowest paid state employees in the country) and couldn't afford prety rifles.  Had a lot of help from a couple of older 'smiths and haven't forgotten..  I try to never say no to anyone wanting to learn...  IATRKYHNTR you are welcome here. we may not know the answer off hand but we'll be glad to try..

[Les Brooks]

Nathan,
     You are in the same situation that I was in about 45 yrs ago.  If you are willing to do without for a few years and go to Trinidad State Jr. College and really apply yourself a whole new field awaits you.  I am retired now and when I finished the school I had several offers to go to work all over the US.  Some of the ex-students are teaching at other Gunsmithing schools after a few yrs of experience.  Good jobs are available, but most people don't want to relocate.  
     I found that a person that could do good stock work was never without work.  It will take a few years to build up a reputation, but is worth it.  Most people can learn to operate a machine, but the artistic requirement for a good stock maker comes from within yourself.  You either have it or not!!!  
     I spent over 40 yrs as a full time gunsmith and made a good living.  The pay was about like a top machinest.  At one time I had 3 full time gunsmiths working under me at a large shop.  We were working on about 4000 guns a year.  I had 12 or 13 men from the different schools come to work for us.  Not a one could do stocks on a professional level and they were not interested enough to spend extra time for me to train then on their own time.  We didn't have time to train anyone on the job.  If you had not been to a gunsmith school there was no need to apply for work.  Liability was too great a risk and most warranty services required a large insurance policy.  
     When I went to school I was a little older than you.  The average age for a gunsmith student is about 28 yrs.  There are grants and loans available to help you in school.  Take a few days and go down to Trinidad to see the program.  
      I went back and taught stock making and checkering for a couple of years.  I spend my time now full time RV'ing and trying to write down some of the tricks of the trade before I forget all of the information.  My current project is to make a few CD's on gunsmithing.  A stock duplicator machine that I designed about 22 yrs ago is ready for the trade.  Anyone can make his own machine for about $500.
      Hope this helps,
            Les

[IATRKYHNTR]

WOW guys, Thanks for the great input, I'm waiting to hear more about the machinist coarse at the local collage right now. I have been doing a lot of research on all of this, and your input and supportive words have been a big help to me! Thank you.

Gunstocks are one of the things I am the most interested in, I have made one stock for a .22 rifle already, did that in high school with the help of one of those shop teachers y’all have been talking about. I have been in some sort of woodworking field most of my life, Construction, furniture refinishing, cabinet making. So I have a lot of “wood knowledge”. I was also the draftsman and CAD operator for my family’s construction company. One could say I am very artistic, have had art in the National Junior Duck Stamp competition. (Honorable mention there, not bragging just letting you know more of my back grown, so you all can tell me what I need to look into more) Growing up as a farm kid I was taught to fix my own things at an early age, so I think that is where this is all coming from.

For now I am going to see about enrolling in the machinist coarse at my local collage, taking welding classes with that. Then I will look into a collage that has gunsmithing as a part of their curriculum.

Thanks again guys, I’m sure I’ll have more stuff I think of to pick your brains about.

Nathan