Which one to buy? M-1 Carbine or Lever Action 357 Carbine

[whackmnstackm1775]

Gents,

I have worked myself into another conundrum.  I may have the oppurtunity in the next few months to buy a new gun.  The two at the top of the list are M-1 Carbine and most likely a Rossi R92 Model-56008 or 56006 16 inch Carbine 357 mag.  To begin, I really don't "need" either one of these guns as I have a 270 win for large game, a 223 or 22 mag for other stuff, but I am graduating from college and planned on rewarding myself. Good idea, right?  I thought so.  Thus I would appreciate any discussion or advice for or against either one of these. To flavor the converstation, I own a 357 revolver right now, but I also like they idea of the lighter M-1 carbien and the 30 rd magazines.  This gun will most likely be a truck or pack gun.  So, without any further adieu. Let the games begin.

[Daman]

I am buying either a Marlin 1894C 357 mag or a Henry Big Boy 357 just for getting through this year in college (my 5th). I say heck yeah buy it you deserve it. You will like a rifle to match your pistol.

I don't do the black gun thing so my opinion is biased!

Daman

[dukkillr]

I have an M1 carbine and hate the damn thing.  My grandfather bought it after WWII or I would have already sold it.  I do know many people who think highly of them though so perhaps mine is just a lemon.

I'd buy a 92 or 92 clone.

[SHOOTALL]

I have owned both over the years . I like the carbine (the gun) . I also like the 357 but not so much in a rifle .Its nice to be sure but if i want a lever its 7X30 or 30-30 just me. Now for truck and back-pack if it were me it would be the folding stock Thompson is putting out . When folded its 26 inches or so . Its new with nice wood and fit . New is a big thing really as i have had carbines with worn out bbls from WW2 and some you could light matches with. I think Dukkillr might have a worn out one . Some of the non military ones made in the 60's and 70's left alot to be desired also. The 30 carbine bullet gets alot of bad press . Make no mistake it is on par with handgun rounds not rifle . It compares to a light bullet in 357mag sorta . The 357 110 gr bullet going 1400 or the 30C 110  going 1900 . The mah I think has a better shape bullet in some respects . I have used the 30C to take deer and turkeys . Small deer no problem at handgun range big deer not as reliable to be honest. I used winchester 110 gr. hollow points for both. solids or FMJ didn't work well at all. I would feel the same would be true in a defense role. As for a truck gun - can you carry it loaded ? if not the mags on the carbine would allow the gun to be loaded faster .

[Default_Required]

ShootAll ,

 Out of a 357 magnum rifle with H4227 and a 140 gr XTP you get it into the 1900 fps realm, With H110 and the same XTP you can darn near breech 2000 fps (1994 fps) and it will be in the 1200+ ft.lbs. of energy . All with a heavier and larger diameter bullet then the carbines stock 110gr..  I had to get real familiar with this round out a carbine , It was what the wife wanted for hunting . And I was determended to give her the best odds of recovering her animal.

 As for which I would choose ? Well , Good question. Think I would stay with the 357 mag lever action for a few reasons . First being that I cant misplace the mag for the 357 behind the seat of the truck , 10 rounds of 357 mag is plenty for all my truck gun needs so the higher capacity to me isnt an advantage with the M1 carbine, Both are handy and what I would consider light and low recoiling. The Mag also wins in the bullet selection department and versitility in wt. choices. And as you already pointed out Whack you have a matching caliber pistol to compliment the 357 rifle.

 The Carbine wins in fast follow ups should say a coyote cutting a trail across a field present itself. You will find yourself trapped into a set wt. gr. bullet , If I'm not mistaken you cant use the Barnes 110gr ballistic tips can you ? If you can use the spitzer profile then that would lend an advantage over the traditional round nose profile the M1 has used for over 65 years , I havent reloaded this caliber , but shot plenty of the mil- surp The carbine has the fun factor advantage for being able to unload lots of lead for giggles or the worst case scenerio.

 I read a compiled data study on the 357 magnum once , The data covered the state, local and private sector shootings using the magnum since its early days to present , after the data was processed they found that the 140gr projectile out of a handgun had a 97% one shot stop ratio. take from that what you will. But the magnums reputation is undeniable as a defense round. And once put into the rifle becomes a new beast .

 The Carbine has always had a spotted reputation as a man stopper and like was pointed out , Isnt really the best choice for a lucky chance at a trophy whitetail. But of course the same could be and is said of the 357 ..

[Bigeasy]

Default made a lot of good points.  A couple more -  The agency I used to work for at one time issued the m1 carbine.  I shot quite a few, and never met a truly accurate one.  4 inches at 100 yards is about as good as it gets.  With the m1, you are limited to full power loads for reliable function.  Not so in the lever action, you can load mild to wild, with a lot bigger selection of bullet weights and designs.  Now if you just want a fun plinker, the m1 carbine fits that bill, but for a more all around gun, I'd go with the lever action.

Larry

[SHOOTALL]

Both ya'll make good points , I don't consider the carbine more than a handgun as it was made to supliment one . I have seen some accurate and some not so. I have had one marlin 357 mag with a short bbl and it wasn't that accurate either really . Here we can ride in many places with a loaded rifle in the truck so a tube mag is not that great. I keep mags in the console or dash pockets .

[john keyes]

no question about it, 357 lever

[jamaldog87]

One thing i have hear and asked about somewere else was about the M1 mags cuase i had hear they jam a lot. I was told
Stay away from the aftermarket magazines, especially the 40 round ones. As a general rule, most aftermarket magazines, especially extra high capacity ones (beyond factory capacity), don't tend to work well in most firearms. That's especially true in M1 Carbines. Stick to USGI magazines.

USGI magazines are offered in 15 round and 30 round models. The original WW2-era 15 round magazines are your best bet. Some people want the extra capacity offered by the later 30 round magazines designed for the Korean War-era M2 select-fire carbine. However, these tend to be finnicky.

One of the main reasons that the 30 round magazines are finnicky is that the magazine catch on most M1s generally isn't strong enough to reliably keep loaded 30 round magazines fully seated. And by using the 40 round aftermarket magazines in your WW2-era M1 Carbine, you run a double risk of having the magazine fail to feed reliably, not only due to the aftermarket construction but also due to the magazine catch. If you want to use 30 or 40 round magazines, even the USGI 30 round magazines, you should invest in one of the later "Type IV" M2 Carbine magazine catches. These are marked with an "M", both underlined and not. (The underlined M catch is the best bet, but either will work better than the standard M1 catch.):

promags and triple K that are basically junk, get your real GI mags from cheaperthandirt.

I have never used the M1 or a lever guns(besides the one my frineds let me use when hunting).  I would go with the 357 lever gun, it's a safe bet(takes most ammo) and you look cool with it.

[RON17T]

I've owned a M-1 and I don't regret selling it one bit. There not that accurate of a gun. Remember we are talking about a mass produced military weapon made many years ago. I'd go with the lever action,especially if you have a pistol in the same caliber.You can buy bullets in bulk and I think .357 bullets are cheaper than 30 cal rounds.

[Justin10mm]

fun, protection - 30 carbine


power, practicality - 357 mag


you can mount a scope on the carbine

[Lloyd Smale]

I wonder how many of you guys that bad mouth the carbines accuracy have actually done load developement with one. Id bet most shot some military ball or comerical ball and thats what they judge them on. Go try a m14 or a garand with standard military ball or a mini 14 and id bet about all youd get out of any of them is 4 inch. Ive owned 4 of them through the years. dont have one now but would like to if i could find a good one cheap but thats like trying to find a pre 64 model 70 cheap. The couple that i did do load developement for would easily shoot 2 inch or under. One i had a cast bullet load for that shot into 2 inches. Now to me any gun that will shoot 2 inches at a 100 yards in my hands with open sights is a dammed good shooting gun.

[SHOOTALL]

I have shot about 11 carbines , Several inlands , 2 winchesters , sagnaw , IMI , johnson and some i can't remember the maker . The winchesters shot good as did the inlands with factory HP loads from winchester. The sagnaw was a reimport with a bad bore it shot 4 inch groups at 100 with good ammo. The imi was a 3 inch gun at 50 yards with cheap ammo . BUT at hand gun range all would do a good self defense role . One of the winchesters and one of the inlands you could light matches with . I look forward to shooting the new Thompson carbines , with bbls not 60 years old and a war behind them they should be good shooters .
 I know many cut down the effectivness of the carbine but its funny that many have found them very usefull . But that is the fate of the gun , it replaced a handgun not a battle rifle but it gets judged as a combat rifle.

[billy_56081]

Buy the M1 if for no other reason that you may not be able to buy one in a few years.

[SHOOTALL]

Good point !
But lets hope not

[jamaldog87]

there both good guns and for a FL gun(varmints,hogs and the small deer we have) they both would work. I would still go with the lever guns cuase it more powerful and can use most ammo. The M-1 Carbine is a rare find in my area, if you want a AK or ar guns they a lot.

[Dogshooter]

I've had both and the lever is more fun and cheaper to shoot. Not to mention 30 Carbine ammo is really hard to find lately. Never liked the M-1 that much. Personal opinion. Get what turns yer crank.

[SHOOTALL]

I get 30 carbine from GA. Arms for $13.00 - 15.00 for 50 . 38's cost more than that and aren't jacketed .

[RB1235]

I have 2 M1 carbines one a 5.7 Johnson(aka .22 spitfire), the other a standard 30 cal. The 5.7 is a good little varmint rifle launching a 40 gr @ 3150. It has taken various critters out to 300 yards. It is a little better cartridge than a hornet or k hornet. Accuracy was .88 last time I checked about 4 years ago.
The 30 is currently running a 110 sp at around 2100 fps. This is a maxed hunting load and will do about 1.75". Staying in the 1950 area 1.25" is pretty easy with informal bench.
Service requirements were 3" groups, same as the M1. Just feed it good and it can go 2" easy stock. Bedding helps this rifle. Do a little trigger work and you can squeeze a bit more out. The barrel band is the detractor to accuracy, to torque it to 20 lbs helps. I reckon it could throw lead faster and just as accurate, or possibly more accurate than a .357. But that is a guess, never owned one. Were it me I imagine I would get rid of the .357 and buy a  m1 carbine and matching pistol in 30. I only have the amt automag III, but have heard the ruger blackhawk is good in 30 as well.

[Dee]

dukkillr's rendition of the M1 carbine pretty much fits my opinion of it. Light in the britches, inaccurate, not much of a choice in ammo, and limited in many ways. The 357 magnum will do anything a 3030 will do inside of a hundred yards, and I have been shooting the 3030 on a rather regular basis for over 50 years.
I have the Navy Arms Deluxe version of the Rossi 357 magnum rifle, and have had for over 6 years. It ain't gonin no where, and as I type this, the Winchester and the Rossi are leaning against the wall watchin me.

[Lloyd Smale]

dee theres no doubt the 357 is more powerful and versitile but theres just something about holding in your had and firing a little m1 that may have been held in some trembling GIs hand 70 years ago. theyve just got character!

[Dee]

Well Lloyd, if one wants to be melancholy, or nostalgic in regards to WWII then by all means buy an M1 Garand. The M1 Garand was probably turned in at the end of the war, by that trembling GI, while the M1 CARBINE, was probably picked up laying next to his body, as it's "lack of everything" got him killed. It's the ONLY cartridge that would cause me to choose a 9mm instead of. If some clown sent me into battle holding an M1 CARBINE, I would be trembling along with some other obvious physical signs of fear and dread, knowing how lacking I was in armament.
Also Lloyd, there are guns and people that have character, and there are guns and people that ARE CHARACTERS. The M1 CARBINE "is a character".

[Lloyd Smale]

well dee im not going to take one into battle. Most likely will never take any gun into battle again. I know that if given a case of ammo id have more fun shooting a carbine then a grand. I can remember back in high school my dad worked at a an air force base and one of the guys he knew worked in the armory and used to sell us 50 round boxes of carbine ammo for 50 cents. About the price of 22lr back then. Ive got some great memorys of drinking beer at the river with my buddys and throwing our emptys in the river and blasting them with that old carbine. there a ball to shoot if you can make up cheap ammo. It was nothing for us to shoot up 500 rounds in a day and i doubt wed have done the same with a garand. Bottom line is 357 makes a better deer rifle but still in my opinion a marginal one. I also would much prefer a 30 carbine over a 357 lever gun if i had to go into battle especially if i could use soft point or  bettter yet hp ammo in the carbine. If the military would have allowed this youd hear a differnt story about how effective they were back then. Again put a round nosed ball bullet in the 357 and see how useless it is.

[SHOOTALL]

9mm over a 30 carb ?

[Dee]

Guys you don't have to agree with me on the M1 carbine. It ain't required. The question was "which one" indicating give your opinion and I did. In your memories have you ever thought how fortunate that no one got shot drinkin beer and shootin guns? Something I never done, even as a teenager, and hope any reading this thread will not consider the past time of drinking and guns a good thing to do.

Shootall my disdain for the 9mm is founded on actual experience in the man stopping department, (not mine, but fellow officers) but it's still 7 calibers bigger than the more anemic 30 carbine round, and it in a carbine would be at least as good, and most likely more accurate. I had just as soon have one of those retched Marlin Camp carbines in 9mm as I had an M1 carbine. Bigger hole=bigger leak.

This young man is wanting it seems, a versatile gun, and he asked for opinions, and in my opinion, the M1 carbine has a very limited use. Bullet selections is very limited, and I don't see that much ammo laying around in most stores I go into, and yes I know you can order it. Accuracy is very limited. Range is very limited. And stopping power on all but the smallest critters is very limited.
As far as the 357 magnum in a rifle, it will do ANYTHING a 3030 will do inside 100 yards, and there is nothing marginal about that. I have hunted with the latter for over 50 years, and the former for about 6 years. This ain't an argument it's a discussion of opinions.
That I chose exerts out of your post Lloyd was not to pic but, to point, not at you, but at "my opinion" of the rifle. It seems as it was a mistake on my part, so my bad, and now we are bringing things into the thread that he didn't ask for because of my post.
As far as goin into battle, I will opt for doin it from my front porch.

[Lloyd Smale]

dont worry about disagreeing with me dee. We usually agree on about everything but will have to agree to disagree on this one. Heck ill just shut this thing off and crack a cold one.

[Dee]

There ya go.

[SHOOTALL]

Yea what's one or two ?
Good point about drinking and shooting !