RCBS and Bullet seating run-out ??

[necchi]

Just a little info 1st,
223
Nosler Ballistic tip 55grain
LC 08 brass ( I removed the crimp)

I've gotten the RCBS Casemaster measurement tool and Neck Turning tool.

 I've taken care too fire form (read- fired once from my gun) the 1x LC mil brass and FL size with the button. Then I remove the button and give the case 3 strokes turning the case each time.
 I then turned the necks to +/- .001 or less, leaving an average neck thickness of .011-.012. IMHO these turned out really nice. With the button removed, I'm not inside sizing the neck of course, I count on the Neck turning tool bushing for that.
 When seating the bullet I just start the bullet, then turn the case a little, push, then turn and push again. This leaves me with nice straight ammo with bullet run-out like the necks, at +/-.001 or less on most.
 My trouble is after seating, I'm still getting 10-12% where runout is up too .005, what's going on with those??

 Also, I'm not crimping (Handi Rifle, little need to crimp) so I have the die set high so it's not in contact with the case neck at all.

Any idea's??

[wncchester]

" When seating the bullet I just start the bullet, then turn the case a little, push, then turn and push again. This leaves me with nice straight ammo with bullet run-out like the necks, at +/-.001 or less on most.

Seating in small increments while turning the cartridge should help insure better concentricity but it will only do so IF the seating stem is a really good fit inside the die.  Sadly, that's rarely (if ever) true.  With normally sloppy seating stems, I've noticed that bullets which start crooked usually continue crooked no matter how I  rotate them.


My trouble is after seating, I'm still getting 10-12% where runout is up too .005, what's going on with those??

No way to know from here but I suspect you may actually see some improvement if you use the expander normally, or, much better, if you use a Lyman "M" expander instead, to make for a better bullet to neck fit.   IF the neck's inside diameter is smaller than the bullets by maybe .002" it WILL increase the needed seating force and that WILL increase the incidence of off-axis entry and that WILL cause runout.  So called "high bullet tension" adds nothing to bullet grip but does produce runout every time it's tried!

[84Jim]

With all the trouble you're going through, you might want to invest in a benchrest seating die.  I know Redding, RCBS, and Forster make them, probably others too.  Not only are they supposed to be more precise, but they have a micrometer adjustment for seating depth which is nice for adjusting OAL.

Jim

[necchi]

 I'd like to get a seating die,,but that monies just not in the budget now,,I guess my biggest trouble is that little pill with my big club fingers. Some just don't get started right.
 I might be able to crank my die down just a bit more,,maybe the die throat will help straighten the bullet before it hit's the seating stem.
 Is the Lee die any better? I know my 308 die has a floating rod in there instead of a solid stem,,but I haven't really got into the minute measurements with those bullets yet.

wcchester;
 Good point about the bullet tension, that's actually why I'm useing the Neck turning die instead of the expander button, it's just a bit tighter..any gain at the target is really small, maybe .3 at 200.( i'm not into BR competition) I guess I'm concerned about the expander stem being off center and putting a bit of a tip to the neck. All that work to get the case concentric,,then have an off cilter stem bend evrything.