1892 Marlin

[rex6666]

OK!
some of you older than me, or at least a better memory
i saw a 1892 malin on the internet, says it is a 32 Long(center fire)
can not find these cartridge on any ballistic charts.
I do not remember every seeing a 32 Long
does anyone know where this fits, i am guessing some where just above
22lr.

[Rangr44]

Commercial ammunition is currently available from several makers and sources - with power levels running from Cowboy loads to self-defense stuff.

Here's only one source:  http://www.grafs.com/ammo/15

.

[rex6666]

Commercial ammunition is currently available from several makers and sources - with power levels running from Cowboy loads to self-defense stuff.

Here's only one source:  http://www.grafs.com/ammo/15

.

Thank you Ranger
Come to think of it i do remember 32 S&W.
I don't think i would want it for a self-defence cal.

[Sweetwater]

I believe you will find your Marlin is 32 Long Colt and is outside lubricated (like a 22rf)

The 32 S&W Long (and short) are inside lubricated.

The bullets are different in that the Colt is a heel-type and the S&W is a  normal plain base or gascheck.

The Colt case is the same length as the S&W, but a touch smaller in dia.

I have a pkg of 50 cases that were swaged from 32 S&W Long to 32 Long Colt. I also have dies (brand new CH4D) and a couple hundred cast bullets, PM if interested.

[rex6666]

I believe you will find your Marlin is 32 Long Colt and is outside lubricated (like a 22rf)

The 32 S&W Long (and short) are inside lubricated.

The bullets are different in that the Colt is a heel-type and the S&W is a  normal plain base or gascheck.

The Colt case is the same length as the S&W, but a touch smaller in dia.

I have a pkg of 50 cases that were swaged from 32 S&W Long to 32 Long Colt. I also have dies (brand new CH4D) and a couple hundred cast bullets, PM if interested.

Let me find out more about this rifle. I may be intrested

[Rangr44]

If that's the case, Winchester currently makes about three runs per year of .32 Short Colt, which should function in a rifle chambered for the Long Colt.

I know it chambers/fires OK, as I've used it in my #4 Remmy Roller.

.

[mtmarfield]

   Greetings!

   I own an 1891 Marlin in .32 Long, the earlier version. You will notice that all of the recent factory .32 Long CF is
Inside Lubricated, in that the bearing surface of the bullet seats fully within the case, and depends
upon the expansion of its hollow-base to engage the rifling in the barrel. .32 Short Colt also works, but all
that I have seen have Outside Lubricated/Heeled bullets.
   In my Marlin, I reload using heeled bullets that I cast from an older Ideal #299153 Bullet Mould
after slightly trimming the factory brass down to "Heeled Bullet" length. These bullets are "full diameter",
and have a reduced diameter heel that is a tight press fit into the sized and bevelled brass. I recommend
that you find a copy of Handloader Magazine, #122 for July/August 1986. The article that you should read is
"Loads for the Marlin Model 1892 in .32 Long Colt", by J.F.L. Childs; the author discusses the two general
styles of the .32 Long. He also provides safe loading data that I have used in my rifle.
   There are no "Hot Loads" for these old rifles, and if you choose to reload for it, use light loads. The above
referenced article is a great place to start.
   If you do not plan on reloading, stock up on Winchester .32 Long Colt; Gun Shows are a great source. You
will also see Remington cartridges, and even older "Collector" ammo at higher prices; you don't need that.
Before I began reloading for this cartridge, I bought all of the "broken boxes", and "old stock/reduced $" ammo
that I could find.
   This is a VERY accurate, low power Squirrel/Rabbit rifle that should be cherished! Congratulations, and take
good care of it!

   Be Well!

              M.T.Marfield:.

P.S. ~ If you have trouble finding this article, contact me.

[w30wcf]

rex,
Here is a pic of the various .32 Colt factory cartridges........

As you can see, there were two different case lengths used. THe shorter case used a heel type bullet the same as a .22. In fact the 3 cartridges on the left look like big .22's. The center cartridge contains shot in a wooden shot carrier and the cartridges to the right of that are inside lubricated and use a hollow based bullet.

The .32 Long Colt cartridge was obsoleted in the late 1970's. Only the .32 Short Colt remains....loaded by Winchester.

M.T. Marfield,
I also have a Marlin chambered in .32 Colt except mine is the 1892 model. Thank you for the information. I do have a copy of the article you referenced. It is a good one.  Here's 2 catalog cuts from 1905.
 

 
w30wcf

[mtmarfield]

   Greetings, w30wcf!

   Yes, it looks like you may have the same Marlin Catalogue that I do; mine was Granddads. In reality, as your excerpts
show, the ".32 Long CF / .32 Long Colt" cartridges using IL bullets , were none other than the latest incarnation of the
.32 Long Rifle CF; these shot as well as my OL reloads. In spite of its rough bore, my '91 will consistently knock over 12ga
hulls well past thirty/forty yards.
   I've long wanted one of the Marlin 1894CL's in .32H&R, with the intention of loading down to ".32LongRF" ballistics; they
seem to have dried up though, so I may well have to take the '91 out of mothballs.
   I'm using a Mac, and I do not yet have a way to scan material to post; thanks for posting the Marlin Catalogue images.
Pictures are indeed worth a thousand words!

   Be Well!

               M.T.Marfield

[w30wcf]

Hello, M.T. Marfield!
My '92 Marlin has a somewhat rough bore as well and a bit of a barely noticeable bulge about 4" in from the muzzle. Glad to hear that yours shoots well.  After some experimentation, I decided to use as fired cases for reloading. That means I need a bullet with a heel diameter of .305-.306".  Having single cavity 311244 and 311245 molds (both drop bullets around 94 grs. in w.w.+ 2% tin) I decided to use those two bullets, the 311244 for smokeless and the 311245 for black powder since it has 1 more lube groove. Also, testing of the Hornady 90 SWC has shown good promise as well with smokeless.

I found that, if, after lubing in a .311" die, I ran the bullets into a .301" Lyman H&I die, it would taper the rear band to be a push fit into the fired case.  So far, that has worked very well. WIth the Hornady I push them nose first through a Lee .311" die then into the .301" die.

I have tried several different smokeless powders to give velocities = to the original b.p. cataloged velocity of 1,070 f.p.s. So far, some old SR80 and H4227 seem to give the best accuracy.

When it comes to b.p. in a lever action rifle, Swiss gives the best performance. That is, many more repeated shots before accuracy starts to deteriorate.  Swiss 3F has worked very well.

The following data was for the .32 Long Colt, rim fire. Center fire cartridges would give similar velocities.
1932 Shooters Bible
Black Powder - 90 gr. bullet - 1,075 f.p.s.

1941 Winchester Ammunition Guide
1954 Western Handbook
Smokeless Powder - 90 gr. bullet - 945 f.p.s.
100 yard vlocity......................... - 850 f.p.s.
mid range trajectory .....................5.3"

POWDERS:
Historically speaking, the earliest smokeless loading used 4 grs. of DuPont No. 2 bulk smokeless which was also used in many other cartridges up to and including the .44-40 in the late 1800’s - early 1900’s.
Later powders shown in early – mid 1900 reloading manuals  were for the  now obsolete RSQ, DuPont No.5 and SR80. 

The earliest reference that I can find to a smokeless powder that is still in production today is in the 1903 Ideal handbook. Laflin & Rand had a chart in this handbook which recommended 2.0 grs. of Bullseye. A 1927 Hercules Powder Pamphlet also shows the same 2.0 gr. charge of Bullseye for the .32 Long Colt. Dissected U.M.C., REM-UMC  and R-P factory cartridges contained 2.0 grs. of what appears to be Bullseye. 

L to R  Hornady 90 Gr. SWC / 311244 / 311245 / 311245 b.p.


See http://shootersforum.com/showthread.htm?t=57159 for another thread on the .32 Colt.

w30wcf      

[mtmarfield]

   Greetings, w30wcf!

   Before I got ahold of my Ideal #299153 Mould, I tried a trick that I'd read about in a gun mag: after
trimming your brass to the proper length, expand your case mouth just enough to allow the bullet to seat
as deeply as is appropriate for your Over All Length (+/- 1.175"). Prime your brass, drop your powder
charge, and seat the bullet to the proper depth. It should look a bit bulged, because of the oversized bullet.
Now, you slowly run the loaded cartridge up into the Sizing Die (without decapper!); this will squeeze the
Brass to the proper diameter, as well as the lower half of the Bullet. Voila! You have squeezed the Bullet
into a Heeled Bullet. It does work the Brass more than I like, however.
   Your idea of "half-sizing" the Bullet in your Luber/Sizer is also a great idea! If you decide that you'd like
to have a Heeled Bullet Mould, contact Old West Bullet Moulds, 1175 17-1/4 Road Fruita, CO. 81521
@ 970-858-1449.
I bought a .44 Long C.F. Heeled Mould from him three years ago, and he'd also listed .32 Short & Long Moulds.
NEI may still list their .32 Long Mould.
   I've never tried BP, because of my 1891's ratty bore. Nonetheless, with Unique, I get surprising accuracy.
As long as you think "BP Velocity & BP Barrel/Action Steel" when you reload, you'll get plenty of Non-Magnum
fun out of that great little rifle. Keep us posted!

   Be Well!

              M.T.Marfield:.

[w30wcf]

Greetings MTMarfield!

Neat idea.....expanding the case, seating the bullet then sizing the case to put a heel on the bullet.  As you said though, it does work the brass a bit more. The NEI bullet was designed by Gatofeo who started the thread http://shootersforum.com/showthread.htm?t=57159

He did send me some bullets to try but they did not shoot as well as the 311244 or 311245 with the sized heels. I suspect that it has to do with the .300" diameter long heel. If the heel was .305" or so, that would provide a base bore ride and would shoot more accurately from my rifle. A friend has the 299153 mold and gave me some bullets to try.  Unfortunately they were made from pretty hard alloy and did not shoot all that great.

If you would try one of the b.p. substitutes, I think you would find that they would  group aok in your rifle's pitted bore. That has been my experience since the fouling doesn't build up like b.p. Pyrodex and 777 are my favorites.

Here is a pic of the bullets I have used with the exception of the wooden shot cup.

......82 gr. factory hollow base used in .91" cartridge case
...................90 gr. factory heel bullet used in .78" cartridge case (Ideal / Lyman 299153)
.................................98 gr. NEI heel bullet*used in .91" cartridge case (Gatofeo design)
..............................................factory wooden shot carrier
.................................................. .........93 gr. Ideal / Lyman 311244 w/swaged tapered heel (.78" case)
................ .................................................. .....93 gr. Ideal / Lyman 311245 w/ swaged tapered heel (.78 case)
................. .................................................. .................90 gr. Hornady SWC w/swaged tapered heel and nose reshaped (.78 case)

The 1892 Marlin is fun!
w30wcf