A TWO FOR........

[KABAR2]

I picked up a couple of feet of 2" round stock from Rampa room Artillery a while ago and in the past few weeks I started turning a cannon.... well I hate wast so what to do with the 6 plus inches at the one end ? It was long enough for a Howitzer so except for an 1 1/2" at the muzzle end of the cannon I managed to put all of the metal to good use......

Here is a photo of the final turning cannon & Howie,


Detail shots.....

 

The bore on the cannon is 1" and will be drilled 14" deep, this is my extended drill.....

I started drilling with this and then switched to a 3/4" by 12" long bit

The 3/4" bit made drilling go a bit faster.....
 

Back to the 1"  now having the hole pre drilled the first 12" went fast......... once I hit solid metal then I could only drill a 1/4" at a time and then back it out clear the chips and repete....

It felt good getting the last 1/4" done.....
 

I didn't have a lot of space for the tail stock with the extension drill set up......   
Half of the tailstock had to hang off into space when I cleaned the chips off
the drill .... during this process the bore was flushed with coolant to remove
any left over chips before sending the drill back in...

The 2 For's finally seperated....

Cannon barrel set up for crowning.....
That's it for now the next set of photo's will be the set up and turning of the casible knob and
attaching the trunnions on the cannon , Howie will take up another set of photo's.
 
Allen <><

[RocklockI]

Kabar that is some outstanding work  ! Two guns in one turning !! That is very cool .
14" .....good luck , I get abit concered with any drill that goes deep because of some bad memories of deep hole drilling at a mold making shop I worked in .There is an evil little little 'click snick' and then sweat....   ,yes boss I broke a-nother bit at 14 inches .......Slow and lots of oil I suppose . Drill baby drill !
 
They look good to me .
Gary
 
 
 
 

[KABAR2]

Thanks Gary,
Actually add an extra 1 1/2" to that for 15 1/2" the section the steady rest  is on adds an 1 1/2" only once did I get a little nervous... As I applied pressure past the 12" mark I could feel and hear some clicking.....I backed off sooner on that pass cleared the chips and all was well the rest of the way...
wait to you see the drill I have for Howie!   

[KABAR2]

Now onto the casable knob, have I mentioned this is the first decotive turning I have done in 20 to 25 years? I am more artist than Machinist and the artist in me wanted it laid out by eye, this cannon is not modeled on one specific gun it is loosely based on late 17th and early 18th century cannons. The Machinist in me looked at the most practical method of safely turning and boreing it.

The fist step after set up is going to be making a lot of chips and getting rid of a bunch of metal.....

one of the biggest enemies of fine turning is chatter and steadyrests can make life interesting in that department.... add to that the fact that I have a small bearing surface on the muzzle so that the chuck has only a small area to grip, so if the steadyrest is a little tight the muzzel may loosen in the chuck... you have to find a fine balance between the two.... Note to self do not cut off the bearing surface from in front of the muzzle until after turning the casable knob.......
Now it's starting to take shape... one of the mistakes I see made by people making cannon is that they will leave the casable knob too large and out of proportion to the breech

Except for a little polishing this is looking pretty good

Now it's starting to look like a cannon, you can see in this photo what I was talking about with the muzzle and not having enough surface for the chuck to grip....
Next enstalment will be attaching the trunnions..... I have a unique idea on that subject we'll see how well it works.
 
Allen <><

[Cannoneer]

You've been talking about taking on a few projects for a while, and now I can see it wasn't just talk; you've got some finely honed skills. Superb, Allen!

[oltom]

those are nice!
i often wondered if you bought a rifled/tang included BP barrel blank, then turn a cannon fromit?......it would be already rifled at 1:66 !?

[Zulu]

Kabar,
Nice work!
You mention that it's possible for the muzzle to loosen in the chuck.  If that happened, wouldn't it be catastrophic?  I can only imagine a piece of steel flying around the room at very high RPM's.
Be careful!  Very few of us could outrun that.
Zulu

[KABAR2]

Kabar,
Nice work!
You mention that it's possible for the muzzle to loosen in the chuck.  If that happened, wouldn't it be catastrophic?  I can only imagine a piece of steel flying around the room at very high RPM's.
Be careful!  Very few of us could outrun that.
Zulu

Normally Yes! but if you look at the photo's the center section of the barrel where the trunnions will be set is captured in  the steadyrest so all that can happen is the chuck looses hold on the muzzle swell and it stops imparting a significant  spin to the work piece.
.
The lathe is also supplied with a break which does come in handy for those white knuckle moments......... I try to think things out ahead of time to avoid those......

[seacoastartillery]

     Allen,  I like it a lot!  You are talented with a lathe.  All those delicate astragals and fillets prove that.  Love that delicate cascabel knob ring.  That's a nice touch.  Have you thought about a carriage yet?

Tracy

[KABAR2]

     Allen,  I like it a lot!  You are talented with a lathe.  All those delicate astragals and fillets prove that.  Love that delicate cascabel knob ring.  That's a nice touch.  Have you thought about a carriage yet?

Tracy

Thanks Tracy,
The fun part is I used a standard carbide cutter nothing fancy, no custom ground lathe tools....
.
No this one won't be getting a carrage, it is going to my friend Corky who works for Colonial Williamsburg, he's the fellow who is building the pocket artillery that I posted a thread on,
He wants to build it as a swivel gun and a blacksmith who just retired from CW is going to make a proper yoke and tiller for it,  Corky builds everything from buildings to tables and chairs so he will be building the post.... and he is actually thinking about building the tripod that was shown being used on the French privateteer in Master & Commander...
Allen <><

[KABAR2]

ARRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGG!!!!! 
The diabolical universe has struk again! Pondering trunnion attachment I decide to use a solid peice of roundstock to form a trunnion cutting a saddle in the center for the barrel to sit in to this end I looked around the shop and discovered a 2" end mill.... so I designed and built a fixture to hold the trunnion on the milling machine to cut the saddle



I bored a hole in some solid HDPE rod for a tight fit on the trunnion stock......Then I cut a third of it off lengthwise, you can see the finished fixture on the milling bed and the 2" cutter well here's the problem after peeling the protective coating off the cutter I discovered it had been re-sharpened and now was a 1 7/8" cutter.... O.K. I can live with that...it just means some hand work and more fitting....... So I go the the cabinet and discover that all of the milling fixtures are TOO SMALL for the 1" shaft of the milling cutter!    I checked with the local machine shop we deal with and they didn't have anything that wold help....so now it looks like I may have to go to plan "B" (still ruminating on that one  ) But I want to get this done.

[GGaskill]

Mount it on a rotary table and rotate an end mill through to cut the proper arc?  Or a boring bar?

[Inventioneer]

Hi,
That 2 inch mill is going to make a lot of tool presure.
Are you going to just cut a flat in it.
Can you just take 3 passes with 3/4 end mill?
I'm probably missing something.
And those bolts are going thru the metal trunion? I hope?
Nice looking machines
Paul

[Inventioneer]

Kabar.
Youv'e probably been doing this longer than me and I'm new around here
and that may be more ridgid than it looks.
But if the metal bar is only insde the tube and not bolted thru the metal.
That looks like it's going to go flying. I hope not.

[Inventioneer]

 
 
oh , I'm looking at wrong arent I?
It's not a flat your milling into the side of it.
That's different., but I'm still worried about that set up.
Be safe 

[KABAR2]

 
 

Mount it on a rotary table and rotate an end mill through to cut the proper arc?

No rotary table..... 

Hi,
That 2 inch mill is going to make a lot of tool presure.
Are you going to just cut a flat in it.
Can you just take 3 passes with 3/4 end mill?
I'm probably missing something.
And those bolts are going thru the metal trunion? I hope?
Nice looking machines
Paul

I was planning VERY light passes this was a quickie one time set up....  it looks like I will end up using a smaller end mill and remove most of the metal that way and then hand fit to the cannon..... it will take longer but it will get the job done....
The machines belong to the business I work for, we manufacture sewn goods for Military & Law Enforcment we have a machine shop and a wood shop,  only two people are allowed to use the machineshop, the CEO & me ... it's really there for his use, I use it for some things related to the business and for some more personal projects

Kabar.
Youv'e probably been doing this longer than me and I'm new around here
and that may be more ridgid than it looks.
But if the metal bar is only insde the tube and not bolted thru the metal.
That looks like it's going to go flying. I hope not.

No I apreciate the concern, you bring up some good points.... enough so that I am re-thinking my fixture...More to come.....
 
 

[Inventioneer]

Got ya,  . be safe.
Love the cannon.
I have yet to build one.
 
Is there a place to post some pictures of my shop as it devolops?

[Inventioneer]

Hi Kbar,
 
I dion't know what you have at your disposal, but it is nice that you get to use those machines.
 
Here is a thought.
This is how I would do it.
I'm thinking if this is brass or low carbon steel,  I would make a shallow vblock out of a pc of aluminum or
low carbon steel ( pc of hot or cold rolled would work).
I would Leave 1/2" of stock under the "V" Make it wide enough to support the pc and not tippy, but not too wide
as I will be cutting into it
(and I want to be able to use it again. It is now a reusable tool.)
Then I place the trunnion pc in the "V" and Toe clamp it on both ends.
The "V" should be just deep enough so when the pc is in there I can see the upper edge of the "V"
Now I can toe clamp the pc into the  v-block and directly against the mills table.
That is a pretty ridgid set up.
Once that is done and I am ready to mill it out.
I use the quill lever to chop out the radius a little at a time.
I have to cut thru the side of the v-block before I start milling into the pc.
Good time to get a feel of the chopping method.
I set the quill depth stop to just below the bottom of the trunnion shaft.
(using it like a drill press and feeding in a little at a time until I get the correct radius in the truniun bar.
Feed .03" chop feed .03 chop,adjust rpm up or down as needed and also adjust depth of cut.
The deeper I get into it the more I am to like slow down the rpm.
I can feel what the machine is doing thru the quill feed handle.
I have one hand on the Quil lock keeping it stiff , but not so stiff it makes it difficult to pull the quill down.
If the end mill is nice and sharp and everthing is tight (don't forget to lock the x and y tabe tight)
This should carve out the radius, I Chop slow and gentle and use lot of cool tool (or coolant of choice).
It takes a little time chopping. but I like it better the feeding directly in
Maybe that will spawn and even easier Idea, but that is my thought.
 
Good luck.
I'll check back tomorrow.

[Inventioneer]

I forgot to mention that end mill looks like a 2 flute and I would ratheruse  a 4 flute.
If I had to use the 2 flute, I would go real slow.

[Double D]

Bore a pocket in the barrel.  The press and weld the trunnion in place.

[KABAR2]

Bore a pocket in the barrel.  The press and weld the trunnion in place.

I would use that method if it were a later era cannon but this will have low trunnions hence the saddle....

[Inventioneer]

Hi Kbar,
 
Did you come with a solution yet?
 
Wondering how deep you are going with the saddle.
If its shallow you could just grind it out with a bucket of water close by
for the multiple cooling steps.
If its going to be welded on that would work.
 
Obviously, if it going to bolted to the cannon and/or will be visible.
That would just not be pretty.
 
I bought a phase 2 tool post today for the lathe.
Works good. Not as good quality as an Aloris, but "OK"
 
Almost ready to make something 

[KABAR2]

Inventioneer,
The saddle will be deep with very little left in the middle I plan on drilling two temporary screw holes to attach the trunnion there will be a hole in the center at the lowest point, the area will be heated and brazed I will use the hole to flow the braze in to be sure of complete coverage, after that the screws will be ground flush and disapear once everything is cleaned up and painted if done right it will be hard to tell if this was turned or cast.

[Inventioneer]

Sounds like with a nice braze joint it
will look like one pc.
what diameter is that trunion? 1" ?
Just a guess from the picture.
I think if it were me I would still chop it out.
Are you familiar with the method?
I have a habit of writing probably way too much info.

[KABAR2]

 Well I had to do the saddle on the trunnions the old fashioned way with hand tools.....


First I laid out the area to be cut away (undersized)


And with the aid of a hand grinder and some files I took it down to this, the first fit  showed
it was way too low on the cannon and more metal had to go when I was finished it was not more
than a few sheets of paper thick......

Well here the trunnions have been temporarily attached using a couple of twist rivets, I decided to try
something different, in the past I have wired or used clamps when brazing or silver soldering and the wire
or the clamps expand and get loose... so the idea here is the rivets should hold until the braze flows.....

Top view a piece of metal has been added to the the area of the touch hole field and will also be brazed on,
the rivets will be ground off when done... the trunnions were left long as the new owner was not certain as to this being a swivel gun or going into a truck carriage he will adjust for a swivel.

So now for the rest of the story.... I don't own a torch big enough to do the brazing so I was going to take it
over to a local machine shop and use their torch ....... well last Saturday I stopped over there and found that
they were closed.... a rare occurrence....... So Monday I call and get Tony the owner.... Friday night he was
jogging against traffic so he could see the cars coming towards him.... meanwhile a car drifted across the road
from behind and got him! he suffered a concussion broken ribs and tore up his shoulder he is border line on
need surgery for that..... to top it off he was out of gas for the torch.... so I'm glad he made it through alive...
in the mean time I have dropped the tube off to it's new owner who will take into the shop at CW and get it
brazed on... I will have finished photo's when it is complete with swivel and tiller....
Up next is Howie which I will begin work on this week.....
 

[Soot]

Looks good... what's a twist rivet?

[KABAR2]

Looks good... what's a twist rivet?

They are hardened steel blind rivet the shank is not round and has multiple edges that form a twist the hole you drill is smaller than the rivet and it binds when driven in.... they are used for things like data plates etc.....
example below:

[Inventioneer]

Hi Kabar,
Wow! that's quite a story on trying to get that braze job done.
Your friend is pretty lucky to be alive I think.
The cannon looks great.
Sometimes the old ways can work best.
 
It's amazing what you can do with what you have if you have to get it done.
 
Paul

[KABAR2]

I haven't had any news to report since I gave him the cannon the trunnions were affixed and the tube bead blasted and painted he had two people ask where was it cast    that to me is a compliment when you have a hard time telling if a cannon is turned or cast you did it right..... it is now with the blacksmith awaiting the tiller and yoke as soon as it done I'll have more photo's of the finished product,
I have been busy with work other wise I would have posted more on the howitzer it is sitting on my desk waiting for trunnions and to be bored....... it now has a little brother also waiting to be bored a cast bronze scale copy of a Revere Howitzer..