Remington 870 Express versus Wingmaster?

[His lordship.]

Years ago I had the budget model of the 870, the Express, used it for lots of hunting and trap shooting before getting my Browning BPS and trading the 870 off for a new rifle when I was cash poor.  I was trap shooting with a fellow club member and he said the Wing Master would out shoot the Express due to its finer polishing of internal and external parts.  The Wing Master is a thing of beauty with its nice bluing and ornamentation.  

I thought that he was wrong, but the Express was more crudely made at least compared to my twice the price BPS.  For a basic hunting gun the Express did the trick for me, but it was not all that great at the trap range.  Has anyone owned and shot the 2 models of 870 and seen a difference in performance?

Thanks.  

[sachel.45]

i dont think theres going to be much diffrence in proformance between the 2 like you said the diffrence is basically just finish, blueing, and the stock. that said i still want a wingmaster i love my express (both of them a 20 and a 12) but wingmasters are just awesome. i had an older one that just had 2.75" chambers but traded it away on something stupid still kick myself for that

[pennsyltuckymoose]

I have owned both and believe that any difference on the trap range would be minimal with the exception of the trigger and slicker action for a second shot..... In my experience, my Wingmaster which is a "TB" or trap model has a much slicker action and trigger..as well as the finnish of the metal and wood( I believe this model was supposed to be a somewhat higher grade in both areas to the regular field model)... I used both guns for slug hunting deer... the Express will get the job done, but the trigger had to be worked on... if you take the two guns apart and do a side by side comparison you will see the older wingmasters  were just smoother in fit & finnish to the cheaper made Express.

TheMoose

[jpred1]

Depends on which one fits YOU. I have both and can really bust some clay with the express.I shoot dove, duck and crows and the express keeps asking for more. I have been shooting the benneli auto for the past 2 years and just wont admit until now that I hit a lil better with the old pump.My wingmaster is pretty and sits a lot collecting dust.About 3 years ago our 3 man team won high score for the day with 1 express, 1 1100 and browning 20. The guys that had sponsers ( guns, chokes,stickers all over there golf carts,) were really looking at the hillbillys        ( us). Just close your eyes and shoulder the gun sorta quickly and do not adjust it any before opening your eyes and see if you are looking flat down the barrel.This can be adjusted if not, the stock lenght and comb on the express just seems to fit a wide group of people ( wingmaster may fit you better) whichever does is the one you wanna shoot a lot. The more the better you will shoot.

[His lordship.]

That is the thing with shotguns over rifles, you shoot best with a scattergun that fits you.  The Remingtons, Benellis, BPS's, fit me.  The Browning Citori, no.  The Express was my first shotgun, that is what I learned on.  The big difference with it and the BPS is the bore on the Browning is totally polished, the Express was rough.  The cheaper stock and hard recoil pad on the Express made firing a third box of shells at the trap range painfull, the Browning has a well padded stock and I could shoot longer.

If I was to get another Remington I would look at the nicer models as everything is ready to go and I don't have to worry about bruised shoulders for extended firing.   

[sachel.45]

you can change the recoil pad

[jpred1]

The express isnt  too bad on recoil for the 1st 7-8 boxes unless its a magnum load in 3". Most trap 2 3/4 shells arent very bad.More than a gas operated auto but not that bad.

[Rock Home Isle]

Years ago I had the budget model of the 870, the Express, used it for lots of hunting and trap shooting before getting my Browning BPS and trading the 870 off for a new rifle when I was cash poor.  I was trap shooting with a fellow club member and he said the Wing Master would out shoot the Express due to its finer polishing of internal and external parts.  The Wing Master is a thing of beauty with its nice bluing and ornamentation.  

I thought that he was wrong, but the Express was more crudely made at least compared to my twice the price BPS.  For a basic hunting gun the Express did the trick for me, but it was not all that great at the trap range.  Has anyone owned and shot the 2 models of 870 and seen a difference in performance?

Thanks.  

I grew up on the Remington 870 Wingmaster. The Express is a cheaper low cost version, but I have never noticed a diffence in accuracy between the two...maybe if I were an over-the-top expert, but in my opinion they're both very well made, relaible and welcome in my goose blind.

[Swampman]

I've owned several of both.  I couldn't tell a difference in the way they shot.

[sachel.45]

i think the only real diffrence between the 2 besides the obviouse is the wingmaster is a little lighter since it has the light conturer barrel

[SHOOTALL]

I have owned both and the Wingmaster is a better gun . The fit and finish is better , the rib if fitted with one is better finished on top on the WM . The rib on the Express is plain steel . If you go back and look at older WM bbls you can't help but notice they are thinner and lighter than ever on a Express . The trigger is also smoother IMHO. Do I need mention the wrist on many if not most older WM's are thin not thick like the Express . I don't know about others but the differences between the two guns are great enough to say one gun fits , swings and plain shoots better because weight in the bbls affect swing , dia of the pistol grip / wrist affects hold and hitting your target . The lack of machine work on a rib can be affected by sun light also changing point of impact .
 Which gun you like or shoot better is your choice but they are different . Also buy one of each they cost different for a reason and re-sell different for the same reason .

[sachel.45]

im kinda curious about the wrist measurment you were talking about the 2 express's i have are preety thin at the wrist the wingmaster i had (an older 70's model) seemed about the same (can't be sure got rid of it like an idiot) but my exprees are current models with the new syntheic stock and the new laminated stock they are alot thiner than my .410 mossberg 500

[SHOOTALL]

The ones I have had Express were thicker than the older WM's . I have several stocks that were from the 60's that came off police/prison guards guns along with a couple retail gun stocks . One of the police stocks is really nice looking and must have a length of pull an inch or more over standard . It has no grip cap and butt plate is thin plastic no pad. It has a thin wrist as does a Magnum gun ( the thinest of all ) I have . The newer police (wood ) stock i have is thick in the wrist . That is another difference , Express guns are really magnum recivers not wingmaster with 2 3/4 recivers as many were . There are other differences also like shell followers being steel or plastic , The police model and wing master have some up graded parts ( check the parts break down and you will see differences . Not to mention BBL. choices . Carriers with and with out flex plates . Stright stocks , Trap stocks , stocks for scope use , or adjustable stocks . There was an 870 single shot trap gun with recoil reducer where mag tube is located .

 There are many differences in the WM and Express guess some just miss the refinements of the WM.

[Rock Home Isle]

  There are many differences in the WM and Express guess some just miss the refinements of the WM.

I appreciate a sleek, well made, nice looking firearm. I very much miss the refinements of the Wingmaster...

I also felt a loss when Wincheter discontinued the Model 70, and their lever action...for some reason that felt like such a hit to me.

[Big Nasty]

My mother bought my dad a 12 gauge wingmaster back in 1972. That turned out to be my first gun, and I still use it today. I have tortured that shotgun in the field in ways that a tank would have broke. The finish still looks great, and I have put thousands of rounds through it, and I mean thousands. It is still going strong, and as far as I am concerned it will be my grand kids first shotgun. Did I mention it has never one time, and I mean never ever given me one bit of trouble.

[Graybeard]

I've kinda ignored this thread each time I've seen it brought back up until now. This time I decided to comment on it.

I've likely owned at least three dozen (perhaps more) Remington 870s over the years. The first shotgun I bought for myself was a 12 ga Wingmaster. I've owned at least three and I think four TBs. I shot my first ever registered skeet targets with a 12 ga B grade Wingmaster skeet gun. BTW I broke 94/100 at the Lake Side Gun Club in Conyers, GA on a day so cold I almost froze.

I've owned several Express guns in 12, 20, 28 and .410. One each I think of the three smaller bores and perhaps three 12s as best as I recall. All the rest were Wingmasters.

I have absolutely no doubt there is a noticeable difference in the smoothness of operation of a Wingmaster from an Express. Every single Express I've owned has had at least minor issues of failure to feed or hanging up. I'm well familiar with the 870 action and how to totally strip the gun and did do some polishing but even then they just didn't match the Wingmasters. I will admit the older ones are smoother working than the current manufacture guns. All work fine but the older ones I've owned both new and used were all smoother than those from the last say 15 years or so.

I shot skeet with a 28 ga Wingmaster I bought new in box with 25" IC barrel. I shot some of my best tournament scores with that little gun and in fact for a couple years used it in 28, 20 and 12 ga competition winning many trophies in the process. I lost our club championship at the club I owned at the time by one target I dropped when a hull came apart on me on the first shot on doubles at station seven and I just couldn't get it cleared in time to fire the second shot. The old rascal that beat me was a good friend named Red Montgomery. He shot clean with a 12 ga Rem. 1100 skeet choked gun. My last round was fired under almost darkness as I let all others who wanted to shoot ahead of me while I pulled and kept score. I actually like shooting late like that so didn't consider it a handicap and were it not for a hull that came apart on me I'd have tied and we'd have had to wait another day for the shoot off as it was far to dark by then to begin a shoot off.

I don't mind the outside finish of the Express guns and actually prefer such a dull finish and camo as well on hunting guns. On the target ranges I kinda like real nice looking guns however. The internal roughness of action NOT barrel is my complain against the Express along with those cheap POS stocks on the wood stocked guns.

On a trap range one should really shoot a gun stocked for the game that puts most of the pattern above line of sight. On a field or skeet gun you do NOT want it shooting that way you want that pattern hitting where you point. The trap gun gives you the build in lead for the rising targets of trap but hurt on the falling targets of skeet. I'd not want to shoot trap with an Express unless it had a trap type stock on it but as to the action or barrel I'd have no real qualms as you don't have to do anything in trap fast except get your shot off and nothing in any of the Express guns I've owned would hinder that.

Bottom line for me is I doubt I'll ever spend money on another Express but I'll always have Wingmasters around. I once had one of the limited Edition matched pairs of 28 and .410 and used both those in skeet competition as well. I also had a matched pair of the 1100s also in 28 and .410. I don't recall what year they were made but I think there were 2500 of one and 3500 of the other. I think more 1100s than 870s. I wish I'd held on to both sets.

[Win 88]

Valuable thread, as I'm planning to get a 870.

P.