Black Powder Cannons of our Youth

[seacoastartillery]

     One afternoon at the Colorado School of Trades in Lakewood, Colorado, I put up a handbill advertising an impromtu Tunnel No. 1 Cannon Shoot just west of Golden, CO on the Clear Creek highway.  Because we had to get the 350 Lb. beast away from the road and up the canyon about 50 yards to be able to Hit the 400 YARD ROCK, I was looking for strong backs and weak minds.  All of a sudden a stout looking Marine was in front of me inquiring about my cannon.  Before I really had a chance to lay it on real thick, he said, "I'm in; I'll meet you there!" That energetic volunteer was none other than Gary Lorenz.  

     The story in his own words below and now some old photos to go with it:


"Here is a true story about the very first Black Powder cannon I ever saw shoot . I was in gunsmith school in 77' and some guy was going to take out his 4" OIL CAN size mortar !

well holly chickimaguua ! I gotta see this thing ! So I introduce myself and vollenterred (sp it stinks to a ignorant ) so on the apointed Sat . we went to what was known then as "the 400 yard rock" it was a small place that you could shoot from and up on the hillside was a rock 400 yards away .

We haulded this 1791 or somedanm thing up the trail which was normally an easy walk with a rifle or two grunting and straining all the way ropes and sweat .

It went BOOM over and over launching cement filled oil cans and delivering hot death from above and I was hooked BIG TIME .

I went shooting with him agian BUT strangly noted that other than me there were no origanal vollentters the next times . YOU WILL NEED A CREW they are easy to scare up the first time .

Tracy still has that darn mortar but now it sits in a shed like yesterdays news ......... two old guys and me can not move it ."


Tracy 33 years and 80 pounds ago as he aims the 4" 1797 U.S. Land Service Mortar, a half-scale 8" mortar at the 400 Yard Rock.




A concrete filled 4" oil can flies toward the 400 Yard Rock!




Tracy and Mike relax between bombardments of the Rock.  "Eat Cold Steel, Ruskie!"  "With a Hat like this I can't Lose, Limey!"

[RocklockI]

Hokie mokie THAT was the time and place !

I'm sure glad I didnt age like you two .  

Give me some credit   ...I stuck with it till now ....with some breaks here and there  

eta is that Mike H's 'Viet nam bring back that eventualy shot a hole in his floor ?

[Ex 49'er]

Nice looking mortar. How much powder did it take to launch the oil cans? 
Do you still have the hats/helmets?
Everybody sure looks young in those pictures.
Nice to know that ya'll still like to play.

[seacoastartillery]

Hokie mokie THAT was the time and place !

I'm sure glad I didnt age like you two . 

Give me some credit  ...I stuck with it till now ....with some breaks here and there 

eta is that Mike H's 'Viet nam bring back that eventualy shot a hole in his floor ?

     Hey, give me a break!  I have more hair than you do!! So there.  That was Gilspie with the SKS bring back, ANOTHER ARTIST!!  He blew a hole in the wall between his room and mine in that big house 6 of us rented.  It kept on going out my wall with the hallway and up through the hallway ceiling and into the attic.  He made the classic mistake of reloading for the SKS with soft, commercial primers and ignoring the fact that that piece has an inertial firing pin which will not set off the tough steel military primers as you slam a round into the chamber after hitting the bolt release, but will pop a commercial primer every time!!   Mike H. was the guy who drew down on a beetle as it tried to cross his apartment's shag carpet and OOPS!! BLASTED IT with his 44 Mag by mistake.  I was not there, but I heard he ran around like he was on fire and fixed up both holes in less than 5 minutes!  He combed the 70's shag carpet toward the hole to hide it in his apt. and then zoomed down to the laundry room to hide the exit hole in the ceiling.  He thought quickly, before someone came in, and grabbed a ski pole and put 20 holes in the ceiling to camoflage the 44 cal. hole!  No hole in the floor; maybe it popped into someone's laundry basket and they carried it way?

Nice looking mortar. How much powder did it take to launch the oil cans? 
Do you still have the hats/helmets?
Everybody sure looks young in those pictures.
Nice to know that ya'll still like to play.

     Ex 49'er, I still have the helmet, but not the coat.  5oz. took a 5.5 Lb. can out to 400 yards.  Anything more than 6 oz. turned the concrete into gravel and the can into strips of thin cardboard which fluttered down.  We were all 20 somethings back then; we survived those days and we are a lot more careful now.  I almost forgot; that's the mortar that we used to win the BINGO SHOOT about 3 years ago, the first Postal Match for the Mortar and Cannon Board on GBO.

Oh the good 'ole days!

Tracy and Mike

[GGaskill]

This picture sure shows that the early generation repeaters were still thought of by the generals as handles for bayonets.  A pretty unequal match.

[little seacoast]

Yowsah! That is a monster, no wonder the crews were hard to find a second time.
Love the pictures, they take me back to a fun time in all our lives. Do you ever wake up in the morning feeling 20- look in the mirror- and wonder how did that happen?  By the way, what did the little sign behind ya'll say?

[dan610324]

"NO FIRING OF FIREARMS ALLOWED HERE" ,  maybe

so they used the ordnance insted 

[RocklockI]

Gilespi sold sold it to Mike H

He was standing in his living room and pulled the bolt back and saw the grey color of the follower and closed it ON A LIVE round ,none of us were used to seeing anything other than brass cases in those days .

Of course it was steel cased . Then he just pointed at the floor and pulled the trigger ..........with the shag carpet you could hardly find the bullet hole . So we ran downstairs to see what happed below . ThanK God Mike lived above the laundery room there was  fist size hole in the cieling .

We could not find where it finaly landed so we put a dowel through both holes ...Nothing ! Never did find it , but then yes MikeH smashed the hole upward instead of down .

You were thinking of Cheif ,he always packed that #29 S&W who is still in Atica NY pennal , far as I know .

IIRC the sign said do not stand behind the mortar ! As mortars tend to eject the fuse directly to the rear .

[Spuddy]

Now this thread is entertaining.

[KABAR2]

When Gary posted his adventures with his friends I pm'd when I discovered
that he had gone to the same gunsmithing school at the same time.........
when they were finishing up I was just starting at Trinidad State Jr College
for my Gunsmithing degree.... the three of them went to that "Other school"
we missed it by that much... crossing paths back then..... Us Gunnies are all
alike......

[SFSO04]

Kabar2 when did you leave Trinidad? I was there from 83 through 86. In case you didn't hear Ed Shulen passed away recently.

[KABAR2]

Kabar2 when did you leave Trinidad? I was there from 83 through 86. In case you didn't hear Ed Shulen passed away recently.

I was there from 79 to 81, no I hadn't heard about Ed passing, I knew that Bill Pratior the dean of Gun smithing had passed and
I believe they named the range after him, Had some interesting times at Trinidad, I spent my summers playing camp counselor at
Philmont Scout ranch done in N.M. back then I could hike 20 miles with a full pack and not break a sweat, now I'm lucky to hall me
around.

[Blaster]

Trinidad State Junior College Gun Smithing Shool has a new addition.  This new section was funded by Brownells of Montezuma, IA.  They have done a lot for the school.  I believe they are now going to have a "walk in" type store for customers to bring in their firearms needing repairs etc.  Supposed to give the gun smithing students some real counter time and actually dealing with real customers.  The school is still doing well.  IMHO.

[RocklockI]

Dealing with real customers ! Half the class will proly quit .

Nice to see Brownells doing that ,of course it went to the wrong school . IMHO 

I have met many Trinyguys over the years and they do know their stuff , any of you's heard of David Sullivan ,"sully" . Heck of a local smith ,match M1A's , leg match guns , Camp Perry rifles , AR target guns and doing some turn bolt guns work for some sheriffs dept down south .

But of course that has nothing to do with CANNONS ! At the Colo. School of Trades with had guys toting 4" mortars and making future believers into the family .....

[Victor3]

 Last time this 230 pound one of mine was out was around 9 years ago. Prior to that, the former owner told me he hadn't fired it in 20 years...





 Gotta find someone with a strong back who wants it.

[GGaskill]

Make a mortar wagon for it.  Include a hoist on the wagon.   

[seacoastartillery]

      Victor,   Quit complaining, I've still got you beat on weight.  The 4", even minus the temporary field carriage described in the Artillerist's Manual, and shown in the old photos, still weighs 275 pounds, 200 for the tube and 75 for the cast iron carriage.  Nice photos, bye the way.  Is that a 2.6"?

      George,   Ever since Colorado law changed about two years ago requiring shooters to merely to pull their vehicles off the road to clear the roadway and not travel any further on the Pawnee National Grassland where we go to shoot, we have been thinking about a mortar wagon type hand propelled vehicle to carry cannons, shooting benches et al. Bicycles are legal and a cart would make the same tracks as two of them side by side.  Almost all the old dirt roads are now marked with signs that say,  "No Motor Vehicles Allowed Beyond This Point".  They are about 25 feet off the major dirt roads which still allow traffic, For Now.

Tracy and Mike

[carronader]

a bicycle powered two wheeled cart...............hmmmmm  would require someone dumb enough to provide the pedal power on a regular basis...a wardrobe full of multicolour sportswear,,,,,,,,,,,,,straw hat perhaps.....easily led....I don't know of anyone in your area fitting the profile but a name for this transport springs to mind............a Rockshaw.

[seacoastartillery]

     Carronader,   You do have a way with words!  Please remember though, it's our friendly, local govt. here, which is tightening the noose via it's eternal, and ever-present, more controlling, nature.  More regulations, more rules, more petty hoops the citizen must jump through to use the public land for legal purposes.  Sound familiar?  

     A 'ROCKSHAW'??  Does that assume we must find a 'ROCKSOMETHING' to pedal it?  

Tracy and Mike

[carronader]

As long as you guys keep going , complaining , writing letters , making things difficult ,using the media , there is hope. Enthusiasm .......more people want to go out shoot cannons............the more people to challenge restrictions.   
  I would suggest pedal extensions...........normally proportioned Rockshawers are not always available.

[KABAR2]

"No Motor Vehicles Allowed Beyond This Point" yes I can see it now as the suburban pulls off the road....... it is put in neutral
a telescoping aluminum mast pneumatically appears  and sails are unfurled  the wind suburban is born! no longer held back by
the "No Motor Vehicles Allowed " signs it can roam the plain with impunity! and for the times that they are becalmed a special harness has been built
for a "rock-et" to pull the suburban to it's destination.... heck if he could pull a mortar up a mountain then a Suburban should be a piece of cake....  
And what a test case to shove up the tree huggers nose.......

Hey it was either sails or camels like in the last Mad Max movie......

[Victor3]

 Hey M&T - I found a suitable bike for our mortars...

http://surlybikes.com/bikes/big_dummy_complete/

[Zulu]

Is it possible that our beloved "Rockshaw" is moonlighting?
We better keep an eye on him.
Zulu

[KABAR2]

Is it possible that our beloved "Rockshaw" is moonlighting?
We better keep an eye on him.
Zulu

Nope too much hair.....

[seacoastartillery]

     Thanks for all the novel ideas on how we can traverse the prairie with cannons and gear legally.  Regarding the 'Big Dummy' by Surley Cycles, Mike said, "I'm going to bring my pliars with us so I can pull all those cactus spines out of you when you tip over!  Are you nuts?"  The fact that we could probably drop ship two of these to Dominick for some cross-brace welding and pedal extensions,(thanks Carronader),and then pick the 'Prairie Traveler' up on our next trip east in October, didn't seem to change his mind.   Rebuffed, I thought quickly, and asked Mike, "What do you call one of those Plains Indian luggage hauling frames?"  "A Travois", says he.  Googled travois, yep that's it, but most of the descriptions included a 'Beast of Burden'.  After I finished reading that last part, we both looked at each other and exclaimed, with one voice,....."LONGMONT!"   He, he, he.....ha, ha.

     I've been under sail-power quite a bit in my youth at Church and YMCA Camps, and even sail-rigged an official, Soapbox Derby Racer, built by my grandfather for an older cousin who actually raced it in Akron, Ohio.  But a Sail-Rigged Suburban would be a bit too optimistic, even for me.  MAD MAX Movie:  sails on a 1,000 Lb. open frame vehicle, O.K.  My Suburban, empty, is about 7,600 Lbs, a different order of magnitude, KABAR2. 

     Back to black powder cannons fired during our members, Youth:  Are there any more old photos out there in GBO, Cannon and Mortar Membership land?

Tracy and Mike

     

[jeeper1]

Seacoast artillery wrote.
George,   Ever since Colorado law changed about two years ago requiring shooters to merely to pull their vehicles off the road to clear the roadway and not travel any further on the Pawnee National Grassland where we go to shoot, we have been thinking about a mortar wagon type hand propelled vehicle to carry cannons, shooting benches et al. Bicycles are legal and a cart would make the same tracks as two of them side by side.  Almost all the old dirt roads are now marked with signs that say,  "No Motor Vehicles Allowed Beyond This Point".  They are about 25 feet off the major dirt roads which still allow traffic, For Now.

Does that include electrically powered vehicles too?
The company that makes one of my mobility scooters makes one designed for off road use.
This is mine.

The link to the manufacturer.
http://palmerind.com/electric/yardkart.php

[seacoastartillery]

     Thanks, Jeeper, but info just received puts electric in the same category with gas powered, that is motorized and not allowed.  Looks like a really good unit though.  Bet it could haul a moose out of the bush!  Any old cannon photos around?

Anybody have any old cannon photos lying around?

Mike and Tracy

[GGaskill]

Maybe you could borrow one of those old steam powered tractors to pull your wagons.  External combustion, not internal combustion.  Maybe they need to rephrase the rule as mechanical propulsion.

[Cat Whisperer]

Ya might slide one through IF you had the blue-mirror-hanger handicap permit!   

Stencil the blue wheel chair symbol right on the tube of the BB mortar!