If ya don't know, ya gotta ask

[rdnck]

Guys--I've been casting for a while, and shoot 30-1 in a black powder cartridge rifle.  I recently came across 1400 pounds of SOFT sheet lead at 20 cents a pound at my favorite junk yard, and jumped on it.

I melted it down and cast it into ingots.  Then I cleaned my pot, seasoned it, and made up 45 pounds of 30-1 and cast a couple hundred bullets.  Bullets look great, weigh out at 531 grains like they are supposed to, and shoot just fine.

Here's the question.  When I clean the rifle, after a couple of wet patches, instead of a clean patch, I get a dark green discoloration on my patch that  I have never seen before.  It takes two or three additional wet patches to get this green to not come out on the patch.  I am accustomed to a 4 or 5 patch clean up and have never seen this before.  There is apparently an alloy of something or other in this lead that has not been present in the past, and I am wondering just what this dark green on my patch indicates?  Any ideas?  Thanks, rdnck.

[BCB]

rdnck,

Green generally indicates copper.  I don't know if copper is ever alloyed with lead or not?  Maybe the soft lead sheets you purchased were used as flashing and maybe it was use with copper flashing also?  I'm sure you will get an answer from someone who has experieced the same thing.  Good-luck...BCB

[rdnck]

BCB--That was my first thought.  However, I asked one of my highpower buddies about the color, and he said that copper fouling gave a blue residue.  He thought it might be arsenic.  I simply don't know at this point, but I need to find out.  Copper fouling is definitely not something I want in the barrel of a BPCR.  I still have about 100 pounds of my old lead, but it won't last long.  I hate to unload this, but will in a heartbeat if it is copper.  Thanks, rdnck.

[Aladin]

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JGBS/

Rdnk I'd agree with BCB although I haven't seen this first hand. If you go to the link above and post for Bill Ferguson he'd know. The guy is the guru of cast metals. I don't have a direct e for him.

[rdnck]

Aladin--Thanks for the info on Ferguson.  I've seen his ad in some of the magazines and will try to get him on the phone on Monday.  When I get to the bottom of this, I'll come back and post and let you guys know.  In the meantime, if anyone knows what the real skinny is, pleas give us a heads up.  Trying to shoot straight, and thanks, rdnck.

[BCB]

rdnck,

I took a look at my ol’ Handbook of Chemistry and Physics from many years ago, and there are several elements that might cause the green color you are indicating.  I AIN’T A CHEMIST!!!, but I did have nearly a dozen chemistry courses in college, so I AM DANGEROUS!!!  Har, Har, Har…  Actually, an inorganic chemist would be the person to possibly answer your concerns.

But, an element named tellurium is added to lead to increase its strength and hardness.  It also helps to avoid corrosion of lead.  It shows pure green in a flame test and also when exposed to certain basic (high pH) solutions.  Maybe ammonium based (high pH)  solutions for cleaning your barrel?

Antimony indicates a light green color when exposed to the above.  Antimony is sometimes associated with lead products.

Arsenic indicates a light blue, yet it is associated with many lead products.

Hard to tell what it might be.  As always, just be darn careful when using lead products.  Good ventilation and minimal contact sure are good for starters.  I’ve been reloading for 35 years and ain’t about to stop now!!!  Good-luck…BCB

[rdnck]

BCB--I think you nailed it with tellerium.  Two things--One is that the lead sheets that have not been rendered into ingots are smooth, even textured, and even a little shiny.  No corrosion or powdery oxide whatever.  The second thing is that in the flame of my torch, a small sliver of this lead gives off a pure, clean green color.  My bet is that you are right.

Now the question remains as to whether this trace element will have an adverse affect on the barrel.  The 50 or so bullets that I have shot shoot the same as the bullets alloyed from the other lead, so there doesn't seem to be an accuracy issue with the bullets themselves.  I think I will chase this thing a bit farther down the road before I run a half ton or so of this down a very good barrel.  

Thanks, I owe you one.  Shoot straight, rdnck.

[BCB]

rdnck,

My last post is only thoughts and possibilities!!!  Again, it is extremely difficult, if not impossible, to know exactly what lead (?) alloy you are dealing with.  Only sophisticated laboratory equipment, operated by extremely qualified people, can give you the exact analysis of your lead (?) alloy.  BHN hardness, or SAECO hardness, might help with the identification of the alloy you are using.  I doubt it would be detrimental to your bore unless radical corrosiveness is indicated with the contents of the alloy.  Thorough cleaning should help to avoid this problem.  Let us know if you discover the exact alloy of your metal.  Good-luck…BCB

[rdnck]

BCB, Aladin, et all--Thanks, guys for the input.  I spent about an hour on the phone with Bill Ferguson, and based on the oxide color on top of the melted lead and the results of a time/temperature cooling curve plot he suggested I do, the best guess is that I have some fairly pure lead with maybe a touch of bismuth.  Trying to shoot straight, rdnck.