GREED & ECONOMICS & PROFIT

[williamlayton]

I hear greed being shouted here, at all who would make a profit.
I hear the cry for no socialist form of governement.
I hear cries of anguish concerning liberties being abused.
When, in you opinion, does profit & economics become greed?
If someone invented the greatest of anything and everybody wanted one--and bought one--would you expect the one who invented it--to start giving it away after a certain profit? would this incur the wrath of those that paid for it.
Just wondering.
Blessings

[teamnelson]

1 Tim 5:18, a laborer is worthy of his wages. That's either true or it's not.

[littlecanoe]

From a Christian world view I would agree with TN.  Where to draw the dividing line?  I cannot say from personal experience of running a business and employing workers.

I do believe that we can look at our history since WWII and see changes in the view of Profit.  This is more of a suspicion.  I'd be interested in seeing profit margins of the top 500 companies during each decade of the second half of the 20th century to present date.  My suspicion is that the margin has gone up.  I'd like to be wrong.  How much is enough? 

My prayer would echo Proverbs 30:
7 Two things I ask of you;
deny them not to me before I die:
8 Remove far from me falsehood and lying;
give me neither poverty nor riches;
feed me with the food that is needful for me,
9 lest I be full and deny you
and say, “Who is the Lord?”
or lest I be poor and steal
and profane the name of my God.

Just as the worker is worthy of hire and should not be abused or taken advantage of, the one who manages, invents, organizes is worthy of the value of his work.

[magooch]

Try to operate even a small business now days and you'll wonder how any profit at all is possible.  For big business it's a true wonder how a profit is possible. 

[williamlayton]

Seems to be a delima, doesn't it.
The people can, too some extent, control profiteering by their mode of spending.
NOW, when conspiracy's start, regulating profits by agreement, perhaps, this is is when we apply some of the laws we have in place.
I think--believe--that many Americans are greedy by the nature of what I see in society. I think many Americans would point the finger and deny any involvement in the problem.
That said, I still believe that government should stay out of the way--AND--now this is gonna choke many to the point of calling me a communist--folks who work at skilled labor, read crafts, should be able to bind theirownselfs together as a bargaining partnership, much like a contractor, and set their own wages by bargain.
There is no perfect solution.
All ideas eventually reach their end results and must be re-thought and re-designed. that should be the goal of a Republic---being able too adapt and overcome.
I know, I know--way to much coffee.
Blessings

[The Hermit]

Basic human nature drives everything. History repeats itself because of it.
The markets are driven by two forces, fear and greed. If I invest, I am helping business grow, workers be employed, taxes paid etc. I own a piece of the company. In exchange for this risk, I am entitled to a reasonable profit. This is the way it should work.
When "hustlers" enter the market, they are driven by greed alone. They are not content with a decent profit, they want it all. If they can take over a company with  a good cash flow, they divert the cash, load the company with debt, and dump it into derivatives, sell assets, etc. and they don't care about those who get hurt. They will influence politicians to pass laws that benefit them or their holding companies. Think Soros. Think Madoff. Enron. Worldcom. Greed without compassion. The dilemma is human nature.

  The Hermit    

[crustylicious]

"Greed is good"- Ayn Rand
Ever read "Atlas Shrugged"?

[williamlayton]

Crusty
Is it greed or desire to make things work?
The Ayn Rand you talk of is the Satan of this world. Ego rampant, without moral or boundary.
Judao-Christian Philosophy would counter these ideas with a moral boundary.
Most folks that I know, including some wealthy, began life with a desire to provide. They quickly discovered that they had a knack for organization and business. This developed into a desire to make things work and grow. Most of these folks lived a pretty normal family life and raised good children, were philantropical (sp) in different ways. They enjoyed and recieved balance and satisfaction frommaking busines work.
HL Hunt was such a man--who I was pleased too have met. Most of the folks from my little home town were of such stock---entrepeneurs(sp-Again).
They had moral boundries.
The new rich are not so content--they enjoy taking what someone else has built and pirating the effort. 
Blessings

[crustylicious]

I don't know about satanic, but definately one dimensional.
It comes down to morals.
You can't dictate altruism.

[teamnelson]

You can't dictate altruism.

Yep, neither can you legislate it, yet most of the federal government is involved in "moral" activity on behalf of the people and at their expense. Can't expect it either from an immoral society. I'm honestly less interested in the fair practiced of corporations than I am in the morality of our government, who makes it near impossible for an honest business to profit at all.

[mechanic]

William, you are correct sir.  There are plenty of people and companies that go after max. profit by any means.

Not like the old days, when a fella' would go to work for a company and work until he retired.  They were loyal to him when times were slow, and he worked harder when times demanded and together they did ok.

Now people change jobs like underwear, and no wonder.  When it gets more profitable for a company to work a temp. they will lay off the old help and hire them.

It's a different world.  I've been with my company 25 years.  The last couple of years, my boss has tied up everything he owns to keep us a job, and to keep the doors open.  He could have walked away wealthy.  Now we all prosper together or we all close the doors together.  It's kind of a thing of the past in most places......

Ben

[powderman]

I saw firsthand how walmart treats employeees while raking in huge profits. Does right and wrong ever enter the equation??? Success and profit at the expense of millions of people??? What about the people they buy from??? I saw a show on PBS where 5 young chinese girls sewed over 40 pairs of jean  in about an hour. Collectively they made 96 cents between them sewing those $20+ walmart jeans. POWDERMAN.   

[ToadHill]

Difficult question.  When I had my own business I charged some customers price A for a service and other customers price A+ for the same service.  Was that greed or profit, in my case it depended how much extra hand holding each customer demanded.  I didn't consider it greed when I had to spend a lot more time with the A+ customer.

[beerbelly]

A lot of lazy folks think anyone that works hard , dose well in a business they started and do well are greedy! They erroneously think they deserve just as much as the fellow that put in the fourteen to eighteen hours a day, while they enjoyed their leisure time.
                                      Beerbelly

[dukkillr]

A lot of lazy folks think anyone that works hard , dose well in a business they started and do well are greedy! They erroneously think they deserve just as much as the fellow that put in the fourteen to eighteen hours a day, while they enjoyed their leisure time.
                                      Beerbelly

Or even reverse that.  There are a lot of very hard working blue collar people who make less in 14-18 hours a day than a lazy white collar worker.  Unfortunately, the reality is such in our capitalist system that not everyone is paid based on effort, intelligence, or any other single factor.  Luck, education, connections, family, ect all play a part as well.  It really isn't a matter of fair or not, it's just the way it is.

On the whole, I think people tend to get paid what they are worth... but individual results may not always reflect that.

[williamlayton]

Why do you label white collar workers as lazy?
Blessings

[dukkillr]

Why do you label white collar workers as lazy?
Blessings

Didn't mean that at all... I was just saying that it's not impossible for a hard working blue collar worker to work long hours and still get paid less than a white collar worker who may not work very hard. 

My point is that sometimes it isn't how many hours or how hard you work.

[williamlayton]

I see your point.
Mental and physical work can tire equally.
It has been my experience in life that a skilled worker can and usually does make more per hour than a white collar worker.
It is not unusual for skilled workers to make more, with over time, than maybe his supervisor and probably a degreed white collar worker.
When I was young this was so. I went to a refinery, here in this area, too apply for a job. Was told that they would not hire a degreed person as they thought he would not be satisfied in the long term.
I have a good friend who has a degree from Texas A&M--he is younger than I--and he went too work for Shell. Ended up in the lab and he was making more than me consistantly thru the years.
Now I am not complaining or bemoaning his, or any's, gain--it is what it is. I made, what I consider a good living, better than 70K, and loved the work.
Got fired from that job when I was 52---fired, Hummmm---they called it a layoff---never understood the difference. Anywho, I made out pretty good in real estate, until I was 62---when I quit.
The funny thing about salaried workers and hourly workers is the hours worked. I rarely worked 40 hours a week--it was, more than likely, 60 hours a week---but no overtime. There were advantages ofmy job over that of a hourly worker though.
Blessings