Was I wrong..what would you have done ?

[ironglow]

 those who know me know that I am a pretty "laid-back" guy; not mouthy or quick to anger. However, this morning I surprised the guys at our usual "good old boys" coffee hangout. Let me frame the story; I have always been extra scrupulous about telling the truth..being honest, even if it hurts.
   While we were each talking about our military memories, I mentioned about a dangerous event I volunteered for.
  One of my fellow "grayheads" remarks.." I just bet you did!" . It was not in a jesting manner, but in a ridiculing way, saying I was lying.             
....Quite frankly, I saw red and really came at him, ready to take to the street ! I told him that calling an honest man a liar was the same a s calling a loyal soldier a "traitor" or a decent lady a "w - - - e. that kind of speech is "fighting words"...and they nearly were..

  I look at it this way; I have spent a lifetime building a reputation as an honest man..too long to have some jerk try to besmirch it offhand.

  What say you guys..how would you have reacted ?
 

[Spirithawk]

Can't say I blame you. I've been in situations like that and I simply put it like this, " Whether you believe me or not your opinion doesn't change fact and as long as I know I speak the truth that is all that matters! I don't exist to please you!" There was a time a man's word meant something. Unfortunately it's jerks like those you speak of that slander honesty. Because they've done nothing in their lives they suppose you haven't either. By making light of your sacrifice, in some sick way it makes them feel better about themselves. I am not blaming you but next time try to remember, by getting angry it just gives them more fuel to feed on. A calm cool statement as I mentioned will have those around you comparing your words to his and anyone worth his salt will see who's right.  Unless a man gives me reason to doubt him I give him the benifit of a doubt. As a fellow vet I thank you for volunteering......SH ^i^

[subdjoe]

I wasn't there, but could you maybe have misread his tone?  Or, maybe he has heard so many of the "no schist, they needed someone to to get one of Stalins mustache hairs, so I stepped up and said I'd do it" stories that turned out to be a crock that he is cynical about all such.  If you have known him for a while, and this is the first such incident, maybe figure he was just having a bad day, or week, and shrug it off.  

those who know me know that I am a pretty "laid-back" guy; not mouthy or quick to anger. However, this morning I surprised the guys at our usual "good old boys" coffee hangout. Let me frame the story; I have always been extra scrupulous about telling the truth..being honest, even if it hurts.
   While we were each talking about our military memories, I mentioned about a dangerous event I volunteered for.
  One of my fellow "grayheads" remarks.." I just bet you did!" . It was not in a jesting manner, but in a ridiculing way, saying I was lying.             
....Quite frankly, I saw red and really came at him, ready to take to the street ! I told him that calling an honest man a liar was the same a s calling a loyal soldier a "traitor" or a decent lady a "w - - - e. that kind of speech is "fighting words"...and they nearly were..

  I look at it this way; I have spent a lifetime building a reputation as an honest man..too long to have some jerk try to besmirch it offhand.

  What say you guys..how would you have reacted ?
 

[hillbill]

if he had no contrary info to back up his statement then i dont even know why he would open his mouth about it.i can understand yu being pissed when sumone who wasnt there at the time basically told yu, yu were lieing.the world is full of people who like to diminsh other peoples accomplishments because they have none of their own.pity would be more in order than a butt whuppin.

[powderman]

IG. You showed remarkable restraint. POWDERMAN. 

[myronman3]

Can't say I blame you. I've been in situations like that and I simply put it like this, " Whether you believe me or not your opinion doesn't change fact and as long as I know I speak the truth that is all that matters! I don't exist to please you!" There was a time a man's word meant something. Unfortunately it's jerks like those you speak of that slander honesty. Because they've done nothing in their lives they suppose you haven't either. By making light of your sacrifice, in some sick way it makes them feel better about themselves. I am not blaming you but next time try to remember, by getting angry it just gives them more fuel to feed on. A calm cool statement as I mentioned will have those around you comparing your words to his and anyone worth his salt will see who's right.  Unless a man gives me reason to doubt him I give him the benifit of a doubt. As a fellow vet I thank you for volunteering......SH ^i^

i couldnt have said it better so i will just quote him.   especially

As a fellow vet I thank you for volunteering......

[FourBee]

While we were each talking about our military memories, I mentioned about a dangerous event I volunteered for.

Good for you ironglow.  I always turned em down.  I had one little towhead back home and another in the incubator, and as much as I'd liked to went on some of those misssions I had to pass.   Only one buddy didn't make it thru one of those times.

As for your reaction:  It doesn't matter how old we get, we still get caught off guard don't we.     

[Land_Owner]

+1 Spirithawk.  Very-very well said.

+1 with myronman3.

Semper paratus

[slim rem 7]

 to be called a lier to you face gets in any mans craw..now i hope im close enough to the lord,
that id be able to tellim .,he was entitled to his opinion ..then go on with my story an ignore him..
 now thats what my goal is.. whether id be able to do it remains to be seen..
 one things im pretty sure of ,is.. i don t have much to offer as a fighter anymore..
 but i do know from experience that im not gonna let him bait me into killing him..
i can only pray the lord helps me do that ,any time something like that should happen..
 you have my sympathies and understanding..
 when you show him ,you have the strength to controll yourself .. you ve shown him you might just be the better man..of course the way you described him .. it don t sound like that would take to much..jmo slim
 

[Redhawk1]

those who know me know that I am a pretty "laid-back" guy; not mouthy or quick to anger. However, this morning I surprised the guys at our usual "good old boys" coffee hangout. Let me frame the story; I have always been extra scrupulous about telling the truth..being honest, even if it hurts.
   While we were each talking about our military memories, I mentioned about a dangerous event I volunteered for.
  One of my fellow "grayheads" remarks.." I just bet you did!" . It was not in a jesting manner, but in a ridiculing way, saying I was lying.             
....Quite frankly, I saw red and really came at him, ready to take to the street ! I told him that calling an honest man a liar was the same a s calling a loyal soldier a "traitor" or a decent lady a "w - - - e. that kind of speech is "fighting words"...and they nearly were..

  I look at it this way; I have spent a lifetime building a reputation as an honest man..too long to have some jerk try to besmirch it offhand.

  What say you guys..how would you have reacted ?
 

I don't proclaim to be a saint,  I am a Christian man, but sometimes it takes more then a little restraint.

It is like coming to these forums, so many people are big and bad behind there anonymity of the keyboard, and blast people at will. But in reality when they were face to face, not much of what is typed here would be said.

ironglow, some times a man has to do what a man has to do. When we have nothing left in life, our word is sometimes the only thing we have left.. I always say, a man is only as good as his word. I would of reacted the same way.

[myronman3]

I don't proclaim to be a saint,  I am a Christian man, but sometimes it takes more then a little restraint.

now that is  a poetic response.  lol.   

[Redhawk1]

I don't proclaim to be a saint,  I am a Christian man, but sometimes it takes more then a little restraint.

now that is  a poetic response.  lol.   

Glad you find humor in it. I would not expect anything else.

[ironglow]

  Thanks guys, the answers are about as expected. I did later apologize for blowing up, but not for taking offense at his ridicule.
        Perhaps the difference between he an I is our backgrounds. We have a nearby lake where the cottages are owned primarily by city folks, of which he is one, while I was born "country" and have remained so all my life. There does seem to be a psychological difference between the two, country and city...and I never pretended or desired to, understand the "Don Rickles" attitude.

[turk762]

Sometimes you need to stand up and let people know you are not a doormat. Sometimes putting your foot down and raising heck is what is need to keep people from walking on you. I am a nice guy, like you and sometimes people take advantage and think you will take everything they throw at you ( and like you, I sometimes let them have it to let them know were I stand).

[bobg]

  I agree with turk. You did the right thing. I have NEVER told anyone i was sorry for anything i have said or done.

[blind ear]

Sounds like he had judged you in the past before you made your statement. Possibly what you said caused him to give a reflex reply. Did he make any relavent comment when you apologized. eddiegjr

[Cabin4]

I hope you don't consider this guy much of a friend. You excersiced more restraint than I would have. He most likly would have found my fist land on his face for opening his pie hole. Calling someone a liar is one thing, calling them a liar about military service in front of other people is another. I suppose you did the right thing by not clocking the fool. Not too long ago I was in a conversation with a group of people and we were taking about D-Day. I told the short story of my families military service in WW2 and specifically D-Day. I have one uncle who never made off Omaha Beach alive. I got a "ya right" look from some moron. I wanted to clock him just for that. If he would have opened his mouth, I would have. If he was smart, he would have asked what my uncles last name was and what division he was in. The records are all on line now.

[blind ear]

Cabin4;

How are the records found? Any links or addreses? eddiegjr

[ms]

Maybe God was testing you. Are you full of pride?

[SHOOTALL]

Ya done good ,

[beerbelly]

I had about the same thing happen to me several years ago. One guy at the table ask me how long I was in the Corps. I told him and another dude sitting at the table called me a liar. Unfortunately for him I had a terrible temper in my young days.
   I got up went home got my DD214, went back and laid it on the table and told him to read it. He did, I then beat the hell out of him.  It seemed to be the thing to do at the time. I still think it was!
                                        Beerbelly

[burntmuch]

I think spirithawk said it best. +1  

[Cabin4]

Cabin4;

How are the records found? Any links or addreses? eddiegjr

Below is a link to the 29th infantry division home page. This is the division one of my uncles served in. There is a roster list link on the left side of the home page. You can look up names there. Other infantry divisions have their own web sites. You should be able to google it. In addition, there is a DOD web site that you can request military records for those who served (I don't have the link but you should be able to find it off the DOD web site). Unfortuniatly, many of the WW2 military records were destroyed in a fire at the archive building in St. Louis a few years back. Of course, they still have the names and basic data available. Paper records, like orders, letters or medical records are gone. http://www.29infantrydivision.org/

[burntmuch]

I had a guy call me a liar once when I told him about something I did while hunting once. I basicly told him off. About a mth later I overheard him recycling my story.. I just poked my head in & said "that story sounds familiar & luaghed.

[hornady]

.

Reading the original post, I needed to go out get a chew of tobacco and push the mower around for a while clear my head.
 Let me start out by saying, I am not questioning your honor or service.
I find I am more like my Father than I would have ever thought, he was not one to talk about his service in WW 2, and we never knew until his death that he had received two purple hearts; he would not talk about the war.
After high school, I told him I had joined the army, I will never forget the look he gave me, I never saw so much sadness and disappointment in him.
 A couple years latter after I had completed my tour, an uncle who served in Korea, talked me into joining the local VFW, after a couple months, the BS war stories started working on me, I never went back, you just knew some of these guys had never left the states,
I have always felt my service record was between me, my DD-214 and God, and if I can live with it, and god can forgive me, that’s all that matters.
 I know that a lot of guys need to talk about it, I worked with a Marine that was there in 68, he was in and out of the VA the whole time I worked with him. He could not let go and it killed him.
My stepson a Gulf war vet, he also could not handle what came home with him, he just could not let go of it, last year he took his life.
Everyone needs to handle his or her demons in there own way.
The trouble today, there are so many want to be rambos, that just don’t have a clue as to what it is all about,
 I blame society for this, a mans word is not what it was once worth
Politicians lie. Steal, and sleep around, Sports figures that once were respected, are now nothing more than a joke, in and out of rehab and jail, and movie actors that have absolutely no morals are blasting our kids daily with the trash out of Hollywood.
Criminals are portrayed as heroes. Even the true criminals don’t take responsibility for there actions, (society let me down)
My dad told me A mans good name is the only thing you really have, but the easiest thing to loose and the hardest to keep, and should be protected at all cost.
But these morals have been lost. At one time a handshake was as good as any paper contract. But because of the world we live in, trust is not something you find in great quantity any more.

[myronman3]

Glad you find humor in it. I would not expect anything else.

i think it is sad that you cant see a little light-hearted humor; it wasnt meant as a slam.  but, if you want to be angry about it i cant stop ya. 

[SHOOTALL]

.

Reading the original post, I needed to go out get a chew of tobacco and push the mower around for a while clear my head.
 Let me start out by saying, I am not questioning your honor or service.
I find I am more like my Father than I would have ever thought, he was not one to talk about his service in WW 2, and we never knew until his death that he had received two purple hearts; he would not talk about the war.
After high school, I told him I had joined the army, I will never forget the look he gave me, I never saw so much sadness and disappointment in him.
 A couple years latter after I had completed my tour, an uncle who served in Korea, talked me into joining the local VFW, after a couple months, the BS war stories started working on me, I never went back, you just knew some of these guys had never left the states,
I have always felt my service record was between me, my DD-214 and God, and if I can live with it, and god can forgive me, that’s all that matters.
 I know that a lot of guys need to talk about it, I worked with a Marine that was there in 68, he was in and out of the VA the whole time I worked with him. He could not let go and it killed him.
My stepson a Gulf war vet, he also could not handle what came home with him, he just could not let go of it, last year he took his life.
Everyone needs to handle his or her demons in there own way.
The trouble today, there are so many want to be rambos, that just don’t have a clue as to what it is all about,
 I blame society for this, a mans word is not what it was once worth
Politicians lie. Steal, and sleep around, Sports figures that once were respected, are now nothing more than a joke, in and out of rehab and jail, and movie actors that have absolutely no morals are blasting our kids daily with the trash out of Hollywood.
Criminals are portrayed as heroes. Even the true criminals don’t take responsibility for there actions, (society let me down)
My dad told me A mans good name is the only thing you really have, but the easiest thing to loose and the hardest to keep, and should be protected at all cost.
But these morals have been lost. At one time a handshake was as good as any paper contract. But because of the world we live in, trust is not something you find in great quantity any more.

Good points

[Hodr]

Eddiegjr,
What you are looking for is Order of Battle by Stanton.  For the areas and time covered these will identify quite a few units with precision.  They were compiled mostly from morning reports.  You can also google wiki and ask for "order of battle" to start a search.  Not all vets can, or are allowed to speak of where and when they served, sometimes it's emotional, sometimes, it's legal.  I had two godfathers, one aTennessee man who walked with Merril, the other a 4th Marine raider.  My father was a combat medic who wound up helping treat these men for batle shock in Presidio of San Francisco.  Dad never talked much about his service, most I ever got was his upset at being ordered to leave wounded and escape at Cisterno because he was unwounded himself. 

blindhari
Sgt, Ranger
like my father before me

[ironglow]

Hornady;
     Yes, there are many brave troopers who are carrying ghosts of things they have seen and/or done and as you said, each has to handle his demons in his own way. My grandson (spec ops Marine) and veteran of the Fallujah/Ramadi combat at it's worst time, seems to exhibit no huge symptoms so far, and is quite open about his experiences, except for that which remains classified.
   I had an uncle who served under Patton through the N African campaign, up through Sicilian campaign to the mainland, finally catching it at Monte Casino and shipped home on a stretcher, he talked freely with me about it. ...But then, I had a neighbor who served on Iwo Jima who could not deal with it and shed tears at the mention of the name.
  I have known many who just could not bear the recurring thoughts..Yet two most decorated who come to mind, Sgt Alvin York and Major Audie Murphy, not only could talk about it but also wrote books and advised for or acted in movies reliving their actions.
   By God's design, not all can sing, not all can paint beautiful pictures, not all can work on a 2' I-beam, 150' above the ground....and not all can deal with experiences and memories in the same way.
   ..But with His grace we can eventually rise above the toil and trouble of this world..