Hunting before the 357 ?

[rocco]

Before the 357 .What caliber was the  most used for hunting ?Hot  45's ,44's  ?
I just wondered because reading on Forums over the years lot of people  say 357 is the smallest  caliber that should be used for deer size game . Just wondered about the pre magnum years . Maybe handgun hunting back in the 30's wasn;t as popular as today  ?

[WD45]

As cknight stated I will go with hot loaded 44 special and 45 colt for larger sized game or whatever they had. I dont know how popular handgun hunting was in that time period. Most people probably could not afford more than one or two guns to begin with for hunting and versitality was a key factor. My grandfather only had 2 back then. A 22  Iver Johnson revolver which was used on coons, possums, groundhogs etc..... and a 12 guage double stevens which took care of anything else. Most heavy caliber wheel guns were looked upon as self defence arms and 22 shells were much more affordable for small game. Elmer kieth was using the 44 and 45 in those years. He wrote quite a bit on the subject and at the time I understand was ridiculed fairly heavily by most of the other gun writers at the time. If you can find some of his stuff it will shed some greater light on what was available and what he was using to take game in a sixgun.
I believe he wrote a book called " sixguns " but I cant remember the actual name of it.  maybe...... maybe not, but it is an interesting subject :grin:

[Dan Chamberlain]

Rocco;

The .357 came out in the 1930s!  Even then, very few and I mean veerrryyy few people deliberately hunted with a handgun!  They might pot sage hens or rabbits while mending fences, or they might use a handgun to finish a big game animal, but rifles and carbines were the weapons of choice.  It wasn't until the 1960s that people really started using handguns as their sole weapon of choice, and many states forbid the use of handguns for taking large game animals.  This changed as the handgun afficianados started lobbying for handgun seasons, or the use of handguns during normal seasons.  It wasn't until the 80s that Wisconsin allowed handguns for big game.  So, to answer your question, they didn't!  Not normally.  

Dan C

[Mikey]

WD45:  I believe 'Sixguns' was written by Elmer Keith but I forget who wrote "Hell, I Was There" - that may have been by Keith, too.  I have read exerps from each and they are exciting, especially since the author was the one who actually witnessed what he was writing about.

As I recall from my readings, Keith experimented with heavy loads in the 44 Spl and 45 Colt.  He also handloaded most of the cartridges he shot, including the 32-20, 38-40, 44-40.  Interestingly enough, he only complained about the 38-40 just once, and that was with factory loads - his own handloads were enough to kill enraged bulls with a shot through the skull - pretty darn good for a cartridge most people today think is either underpowered or obsolete.

Keith had 'blown up' a number of Colt Single Actions by overloading his cases to get better velocities and stopping power.  Keith was a big bore fan, make no mistake about that, and an advocate of bullets that cut square holes - hence the semi-wadcutter designs he remains famousn for to this day.

A man can read a lot of books in his time but he can read a few worthy of note and filled with the kind of information that will last him through lifetimes of hunting and shooting.  Keith's books are some of those - you may want to see if you can find a copy.  He may not have been the best of authors or the easiest to read but once you have read his books you will feel as though you were right there when it happened.  HTH.  Mikey.

[rocco]

Thanks for all the fast replys guys .
I was talking to a good friend whos in his 80's today .And he gave the same answers as all of you .Not that popular then and the use of hot 45's amd 44's .Thanks again !

[Blackhawk44]

Everyone that ever owns or buys a handgun should be required to read Elmer Keith's 'Sixguns'.  Then, shortly thereafter they must read 'Hell, I Was There' to see just what type of egotist would write either book.  Then they could sit in contemplation for a good while to see if they could dare to live an existance even one quarter as tough as his and come out of it with the dignity, education and experience that he did.  That is a life to be respected.  Each of us should be thankful for him to have lived it for us and especially for having left us the great knowledge he earned with such efforts.  At a much later time we should then take up the other required studies of gunfighter Charles Askins and tactician Jeff Cooper.

[Mikey]

I wonder what the OK Corral would have been like with the likes of Askins and Cooper wearing the badges.  I doubt there would have been much conversation before the lead started flyin'.  Ya Think?  Mikey.

[Blackhawk44]

I doubt seriously if that little affair would have lasted anywhere near the 30 seconds that it did.  There would have been a need for more pine boxes labeled Clanton and McLowery and a certain Sheriff Behan would have been last seen about Nogales headed hard to the south what with Askins' determination and Cooper's size it up and carry it out.  You could cut a little more time off if you add Bill Jordan to the mix.  Six foot six and moved like a cat.  We could really go nuts and pitch in a few like Thell Reed Jr., Jack Weaver and Jim Cirillo...

[Questor]

Elmer Keith's book "Sixguns" gives a good look at the pre-357 days. He tried a variety of cartridges and settled on hot-loaded 44s. He was a pioneer in this regard.  My understanding of history is that the 357 was the first handgun to be marketed as a hunting handgun, and that marketing, which showed Col. Wesson with his trophies and his sixgun, put handgun hunting as a sporting activity on the map.  Prior to that, people used their handguns as weapons of opportunity for hunting.

[Van/TX]

In most southern states there weren't any deer or deer hunting seasons until the 50's.  If you go back to the 20's there may have been some deer to hunt.  Back then deer hunting was for food.  The 12 gauge shotgun with buckshot was the choice.  Anyone hunting with a handgun was either rich and/or not hungry   .....Van

[Robert357]

The comment about the Wesson pictures of his handgun trophies, reminded me of some of the early advertizing I remember about Ruger.  

The Rugger 44 Mag semi-auto rifle married with a Ruger Single Action Blackhawk revolver in 44 mag on safari in Africa.  I don't know how many times I stared at the picture of the hunter with the 44 magnum semi-rifle and the dead African Ape he had shot in the deep jungle of Africa, shown on the pages of the NRA monthly magazine.  Yes that was almost 40 years ago.

I also remember old Winchester catalogs that indicated that nothing on the North American continent required more than a 338 Win Mag.  That the 375 Holand and Holand was only to be used for Cape Buf and Rino and that the only thing a Win 458 should be used for is Elephant.  Now, running across someone going to Alaska with a 458 Win is considered common and going up to hunt big bear in Alaska with a 375 Holland and Holland is considered being undergunned by some.  

Perceptions in hunting have changed over the years.  Neck shots use to the sign of a marksman who didn't want to ruin a lot of meat.  Now they are considered reckless and unsportsman-like by some.

Ah, memories