Indian Idolization?

[williamlayton]

Whinning?
I have not demanded respect.
Certainly I beieve the Scriptures-- again?? Your not making sense and I don't understand your point in brining up the scriptures.
I have told you that the Indian--just being Indian--does not mean that respect is deserved.
You went to the individual and I told you that no individual deserves respect just because they demand it.
Again---what do you want?
And--again--do you know what you want?
Blessings

[Dee]

Spirithawk, there are some that do not believe there are folks that say what they mean, and mean what they say. They spend their lives dissecting sentences looking for hidden meaning, when there is none, and adding meaning that wasn't there, but in their minds must be there, because that's the way they speak. No matter what you say, it will be misconstrued. After all. If you speak clearly and directly there is no misunderstanding and therefore, nothing to debate.

[Spirithawk]

I know Dee. You can't talk logic to someone void of it.

William, I say again because I've asked you many times already. I bring up the scriptures because they say love thy fellow man. Because they say it's wrong to judge another which you take so much joy in doing by saying no one is worthy of your respect. I bring it up because you convieniently ignore it's teachings.  I did not say respect anyone because they are Indian. I said respect them because they are human and thus deserve the same respect you demand of others for yourself and you do demand it whether you admit it or not.  You have never said, nor done a thing to demand my respect. Not one single thing. I dare say others could say so as well. But if I went around trashing your name, giving you crap, trashing your home and property, doing any number of things you found disturbing and wrong, would you not complain that I show you no respect?  Could not anyone watching such actions say the same? But then why should I respect you or you possetions or your family? After all in your mind everone has to earn it ALL not just a part of respect. But your ideas of respect must only apply to others huh?  Haven't you repeated that sad phrase time and again? You'd scream foul loud and clear if you felt you were being disrespected and you have. Why, you haven't earned it? Yes, I have admitted, some respect does need to be earned, but as a creation of the Creater himself all things living or not deserve respect. To do otherwise is to disrespect the Creater himself! If you can not understand that it's not my problem it's your's. If you really need to ask why I refer to the Bible maybe you need to read it! In truth, I think you argue not because you care one whit about the subject, but simply for the sake of arguing. It doesn't bother you a bit if it deters someone else from learning something that just maybe they might enjoy learning.

[williamlayton]

Well OK,now.
The scriptures say to love one another as you love yourownself.
LOVE is not necessarly respect.
I have no respect for JW GACY.
I have respect for you for the service you offered this country.
I can love those that do not love me.
I can have respect for those who do not respect me.
I have no respect for a bigot.
You have talked about Christians and how Christians should act---did you know that Christians are not perfect and I have little or no respect for some who would teach some of the untruths that they preach.
Love them--yes. Pray for them-- yes.
Respect is earned.
Certain amount of respect because they are human and walk the earth? I disagree.
Respect their freedom--yes----them--I disagree.
Blessings

[Spirithawk]

Well OK,now.
The scriptures say to love one another as you love yourownself.
LOVE is not necessarly respect.
I have no respect for JW GACY.
I have respect for you for the service you offered this country.
I can love those that do not love me.
I can have respect for those who do not respect me.
I have no respect for a bigot.
You have talked about Christians and how Christians should act---did you know that Christians are not perfect and I have little or no respect for some who would teach some of the untruths that they preach.
Love them--yes. Pray for them yes.
Respect is earned.
Blessings

Love comes in many forms. To claim to limit it to one meaning is simply foolish. The same for respect as I've been trying to say. Both come in many forms. I totally agree with your view on some so called Christians, imagine that. lol But I might not respect them as Cristians while still respecting them as human beings, children of the Creater. Can you not understand that. There are many I don't agree with but because I don't agree with them, or don't like them, does that make it right for me to disrespect their lives. I feel that comes only in instances where someone does great harm to another. Now there they lose any respect I had for them. As I keep trying and trying and trying to say there are differant degrees of respect and I believe all God's creations deserve at least some form of it. You keep implying I mean respect as a whole and I have never once said that.  William, this might shock you but I think you basicly a good person just stubborn and a bit near sighted as to other folks views. Now answer me this. If respect, any form of respect, has to be earned, then PLEASEEEEEE tell me why should I respect your views? I'll tell you why, it's just common courtesy. You may not ask for it out loud, though you certainly hint at it often enough any time Lee calls you out, but you want respect as much as anyone and to claim otherwise is so outlandishly ignorant that it's laughable. So why are you so hesitant to give to others that what you wish for yourself? If that's your choice more power to you but I choose a differant way of seeing things. My life my decision. I grant you your's and in return exspect nothing less than you grant me mine! I'm not gonna change your mind nor you mine. Simple as that. Oh, and this might shock you,  but I have 36938 other members, on this site alone, that I could spend much better time talking to than you who could care less about your opinions. I state that just to give you a reality check on what opinions are worth!

As far as you saying that you have respect for my service I thank you for that. As a Vietnam Vet I don't hear that often.

[nw_hunter]

In the Air Force we once had a full week of racial discussions. Kind of a group therapy thing. It was due to the tensions at the time between blacks and whites. All week long I sat in the back quietly. Never spoke a word as I listen to both sides bicker, whine and complain. The last day a black airman noticed me sitting in the back grinning to myself. In a fit of anger he demanded to know why I was grinning and why I had never spoke a word all week long. I just grinned even bigger and said, " I'm Cherokee. And I'm just waiting for you to kill each other off so we can have our da** land back! Neighther side knew what to say and they all shut the h*** up! Since that day I haven't been shy about speaking my mind. 

 After being so vocal and adamant on this forum, I cannot imagine you sitting quietly for a week. Why would this black man be angry with you for being silent, and why answer ......I'm Cherokee? I thought you were half Cherokee?Shouldn't you have said...I'm half Cherokee? If they had started killing each other, you would have ended up half dead

We can sit here and argue this native American thing vs White European thing till the Bison come home, and it's not going to make one hill of beans.

Again I'll say..........It's good being proud of ones heritage, regardless of what that may be, but give me a break! Not all Native Americans are spiritual people, that love mother earth and believe in being as one with the land, just as all non-native Americans aren't either. Has the  US Government treated the Native American fairly?
Hell no! Have they treated anyone fairly?

Dee has mentioned from time to time on the forum his Cherokee heritage, but his views, as I have read them, have been as a proud American first.

One of my best friends was an Osage from Fairfax Ok.He passed several years ago, and I still miss and think of him often. I have several members in my family by marriage, that are part Cherokee. I worked with many Indians in the Oklahoma oil fields, and most of them were good men........Some were A--h---s, just like anybody else regardless of their heritage. My wife is about a quarter Cherokee, and she still likes to take scalps when shes mad. She likes to talk about her Indian blood from time to time, but doesn't make it an obsession.

To me, and just speaking for myself........You come across as trying to stir the pot, and start a pi---ng contest to take center stage.

[squirrellluck]

Spirithawk, a late welcome to the site! It is funny how the word respect has been changed and twisted through the years ain't it. I was taught the same definitions as you I believe. As well as the same attitude about respect. Another word might be dignity. I agree that all people are intitled to respect as people. It is sad that people scream about respecting the animals we hunt but are unable to see that this should always extend to people. Not the knee bending , bowing type but the common curtesy type. But God[The Creator] gave us free will so we can act and speak foolishly. Keep bringing the stories, I for 1 enjoy them.                                                                  Scott[ the mongrel breed]

[Spirithawk]

In the Air Force we once had a full week of racial discussions. Kind of a group therapy thing. It was due to the tensions at the time between blacks and whites. All week long I sat in the back quietly. Never spoke a word as I listen to both sides bicker, whine and complain. The last day a black airman noticed me sitting in the back grinning to myself. In a fit of anger he demanded to know why I was grinning and why I had never spoke a word all week long. I just grinned even bigger and said, " I'm Cherokee. And I'm just waiting for you to kill each other off so we can have our da** land back! Neighther side knew what to say and they all shut the h*** up! Since that day I haven't been shy about speaking my mind.  

 After being so vocal and adamant on this forum, I cannot imagine you sitting quietly for a week. Why would this black man be angry with you for being silent, and why answer ......I'm Cherokee? I thought you were half Cherokee?Shouldn't you have said...I'm half Cherokee? If they had started killing each other, you would have ended up half dead

We can sit here and argue this native American thing vs White European thing till the Bison come home, and it's not going to make one hill of beans.

Again I'll say..........It's good being proud of ones heritage, regardless of what that may be, but give me a break! Not all Native Americans are spiritual people, that love mother earth and believe in being as one with the land, just as all non-native Americans aren't either. Has the  US Government treated the Native American fairly?
Hell no! Have they treated anyone fairly?

Dee has mentioned from time to time on the forum his Cherokee heritage, but his views, as I have read them, have been as a proud American first.

One of my best friends was an Osage from Fairfax Ok.He passed several years ago, and I still miss and think of him often. I have several members in my family by marriage, that are part Cherokee. I worked with many Indians in the Oklahoma oil fields, and most of them were good men........Some were A--h---s, just like anybody else regardless of their heritage. My wife is about a quarter Cherokee, and she still likes to take scalps when shes mad. She likes to talk about her Indian blood from time to time, but doesn't make it an obsession.

To me, and just speaking for myself........You come across as trying to stir the pot, and start a pi---ng contest to take center stage.

He was adamant because he realised I thought their bickering funny. I answered I'm Cherokee because that's the way I was raised, that's how I think, and that's who I am as a person. Is it that hard to understand? If I come accross as stirring the pot or taking center stage it's for a good reason. Closed mouths don't get fed! I didn't take center stage I was tossed onto center stage! lol I say what others are too polite or too misinformed to say and the devil be da***ed! I don't care about browny points for myself, could care less what people think of me, but if just one person opens their minds or their eyes due to something I've said, and they actually learn something or take a more realistic view of my people other than stereotypes, then that is all that matters to me! In that case I may lose many battles but in the end I'll win the war. A war of ignorance both inocent and intended! Untill you've seen first hand, or felt first hand, the results of prejudice, you can't imagine it's stench!

Waddo, thank you, Squirrel at last another someone who trys to understand instead of confuse what is a very simple right given by the Creater himself to all. I thought there were just a few of us here. lol

Not meaning to get off subject, but hey, since I've got everyones attention. What is the trade count I see by some folks names? Just curious and questions don't get answer if not asked. Least most of the time. lol

[billy_56081]

Spirithawk if you have thought what I have told you was offensive I guess you are pretty thin skinned. A person is a paerson no matter what color their skin. As for respect I respect each person as an individual. I do not have respect for a culture as a whole. I will say it again there is only one race of people.  If you want to be something other than a homo sapien sapien by all means think that of yourself. You are forst and foremost an American, if I wanted to set myself off as something other than an American I could put a a couple of hyphenated names in front of American for myself. But I am never going to and find anyone who does offensive. My parents, grand parents and great grandparents were Americans therefore I am an AMERICAN.

[Spirithawk]

Spirithawk if you have thought what I have told you was offensive I guess you are pretty thin skinned. A person is a paerson no matter what color their skin. As for respect I respect each person as an individual. I do not have respect for a culture as a whole. I will say it again there is only one race of people.  If you want to be something other than a homo sapien sapien by all means think that of yourself. You are forst and foremost an American, if I wanted to set myself off as something other than an American I could put a a couple of hyphenated names in front of American for myself. But I am never going to and find anyone who does offensive. My parents, grand parents and great grandparents were Americans therefore I am an AMERICAN.

Your believing the end justified the means is pitiful. You even seemed to take joy at and came out and said you are glad of the murders and rapes and such because that's how you got here. For someone who doesn't see color of skin you sure go out of your way to point out it's the White Man who conquered all and you're thrilled about it no matter who's exspense it was at as long as you have your comfy life. The thickness of my skin doesn't have a thing to do with your making such ignorant statements. They just seem to pop out of you on their own! You think I take issue with such crap as that? You'd best believe I do!