Author Topic: is this gun on fire??  (Read 1656 times)

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Offline jamaldog87

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is this gun on fire??
« on: April 19, 2010, 05:31:14 AM »
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dIO-Ct_VJvM  well i saw this and is this gun on fire or it's it just really hot?  the last thing i used that is Class3  was a AK-47su at the range that i rented and it did not go like that.
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Offline jpbar

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Re: is this gun on fire??
« Reply #1 on: April 19, 2010, 06:01:15 AM »
Wow,

Offline mechanic

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Re: is this gun on fire??
« Reply #2 on: April 19, 2010, 07:33:41 AM »
Thanks for clip.  I will know never to buy a gun from this idiot.  Someone has been watching too many movies.
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Offline mcwoodduck

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Re: is this gun on fire??
« Reply #3 on: April 19, 2010, 07:38:41 AM »
I guess a little too much lube and a few 75 or 100 round drums will catche the foreend on fire.

Offline jamaldog87

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Re: is this gun on fire??
« Reply #4 on: April 19, 2010, 08:08:11 AM »
i don't get how he kept shooting it. Would all that heat cuase the mag to blow or something? Youtube is full of people doing  ignorant things.
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Offline mcwoodduck

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Re: is this gun on fire??
« Reply #5 on: April 19, 2010, 09:57:09 AM »
Just the wooden foreend is on fire.
The gas tube and barrel have heated up to where contact with either a Lube or the wood will combust.
As everyone has pointed out it is hard to make an AK NOT fire.
But the same thing with any rifle if you ignite the stock until it burns up something that makes the gun go bang it will keep going bang.
I have played with mine till the fore end got hot but I had the common sence to open the bolt and let the rifle cool.
Also at the same time you have heat damage to the barrel and can warp it or strip out the rifling.
I have seen a M60 barrel that was shot to where it bowed up. (was shot from the bipod)

Offline kctibs

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Re: is this gun on fire??
« Reply #6 on: April 19, 2010, 02:10:09 PM »
Idiot. That's all I can say.
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Offline Lloyd Smale

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Re: is this gun on fire??
« Reply #7 on: April 20, 2010, 01:36:01 AM »
yup now theres an idiot!
Idiot. That's all I can say.
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Offline Hodr

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Re: is this gun on fire??
« Reply #8 on: April 20, 2010, 04:29:51 AM »
As an armorer I had an idiot bring an M60 back with a heat damaged barrell.  I got the barrell DX for new.  The next week end same guy got drunk and trashed a barracks, then took a six year renlistment for funds to get out of court martial. First Sgt and platoon Sgt got the idiot a vacation trip to Viet Nam as a send off for next six years. 

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Offline LCR

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Re: is this gun on fire??
« Reply #9 on: April 27, 2010, 04:31:10 PM »
Not really an idiot, he is merely demonstrating the reliabilty and durability of an AK-47. An M4 barrel will start melting in under 600 rounds of sustained full-auto fire.
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Offline cjclemens

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Re: is this gun on fire??
« Reply #10 on: May 01, 2010, 06:32:24 AM »
well, its clear that an ak can withstand excessive heat, but at what point do you start running the risk of cooking rounds of prematurely?

Offline mcwoodduck

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Re: is this gun on fire??
« Reply #11 on: May 03, 2010, 11:31:47 AM »
I was not clear by the video if the gun was a full auto or if it was cooking off rounds.  Guess I will have to look close to see if it is a class 3 gun or if it is not made to go squirt.

Offline jamaldog87

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Re: is this gun on fire??
« Reply #12 on: May 04, 2010, 01:32:28 PM »
It was  FULL AUTO. He has to cock it after each mag.  That a good way to waste $15,000 ;D it's a ROMANIAN AK-47 that is class 3.
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Offline ironglow

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Re: is this gun on fire??
« Reply #13 on: May 04, 2010, 02:14:13 PM »
Not really an idiot, he is merely demonstrating the reliabilty and durability of an AK-47. An M4 barrel will start melting in under 600 rounds of sustained full-auto fire.

         Of course it was on fire (at least the combustable parts are). If the barrel is not warped the steel has probably been at least partially annealed and won't last long. ...And he is an idiot, unless he has guns to throw away..then there is just the ingrained attitude of real riflemen that they don't want to utterly abuse a rifle !
    Just how much   an M4 or an Ak-47 will suffer from sustained fire of several hundred rounds is a moot point; anyone who would sustain fire anywhere near a hundred rounds, should have his head examined. Combat rifles are not designed to maintain anywhere near that kind of sustained fire. Rudimentary machine gun training explains the folly of such sustained fire, machine gunners are trained to time their bursts.
  As far as the AKs being in any normal way "superior" to the M16 series, is very much open for debate. Right off the bat, the primary mark of a good rifle is it's inherent accuracy,.... where the AKs come off a distant second to the M16s.
  While the AKs are a good and very serviceable combat rifle, their popularity, especially with insurgents and Pancho Villa type armies is for two main reasons 1) they are cheap to produce, with their stamped housings, and 2) The sloppy tolerances throughout the rifles means they will function well when they are terribly neglected...a plus point for a ragged and undisciplined  force.
  While the AK's 7.62X39 round works well for very close (room to room) operations..so too does the M4. The AK47 rate of fire is 600 while the M4 is around 950 (rounds per minute). The special ops Marines I know personally and who have been involved in such combat around Ramadi and Fallujah preferred and stuck with their M4s, when they could easily have used the AKs...actually they most often preferred the Mossberg 500 for that job.
  Beyond 100 yards, the M16 takes over as to accuracy and ballistics...plus armored vest penetration, say nothing about the many special purpose accessories available for the M16 base.

  One indicator of the quality difference; The armies who can afford them , the M16 is chosen over the AKs as their service rifle. They are willing to pay about 3 times more for the M16s.
  For me, the watchword for rifle..should be accuracy, that is why so many varmint & long range coyote hunters use AR15s while few use Aks.  Below is an interesting video featuring the well known Dr Atwater;

  http://splodetv.com/ak-47-vs-m16
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Offline jamaldog87

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Re: is this gun on fire??
« Reply #14 on: May 06, 2010, 05:59:06 AM »
Not really an idiot, he is merely demonstrating the reliabilty and durability of an AK-47. An M4 barrel will start melting in under 600 rounds of sustained full-auto fire.

         Of course it was on fire (at least the combustable parts are). If the barrel is not warped the steel has probably been at least partially annealed and won't last long. ...And he is an idiot, unless he has guns to throw away..then there is just the ingrained attitude of real riflemen that they don't want to utterly abuse a rifle !
    Just how much   an M4 or an Ak-47 will suffer from sustained fire of several hundred rounds is a moot point; anyone who would sustain fire anywhere near a hundred rounds, should have his head examined. Combat rifles are not designed to maintain anywhere near that kind of sustained fire. Rudimentary machine gun training explains the folly of such sustained fire, machine gunners are trained to time their bursts.
  As far as the AKs being in any normal way "superior" to the M16 series, is very much open for debate. Right off the bat, the primary mark of a good rifle is it's inherent accuracy,.... where the AKs come off a distant second to the M16s.
  While the AKs are a good and very serviceable combat rifle, their popularity, especially with insurgents and Pancho Villa type armies is for two main reasons 1) they are cheap to produce, with their stamped housings, and 2) The sloppy tolerances throughout the rifles means they will function well when they are terribly neglected...a plus point for a ragged and undisciplined  force.
  While the AK's 7.62X39 round works well for very close (room to room) operations..so too does the M4. The AK47 rate of fire is 600 while the M4 is around 950 (rounds per minute). The special ops Marines I know personally and who have been involved in such combat around Ramadi and Fallujah preferred and stuck with their M4s, when they could easily have used the AKs...actually they most often preferred the Mossberg 500 for that job.
  Beyond 100 yards, the M16 takes over as to accuracy and ballistics...plus armored vest penetration, say nothing about the many special purpose accessories available for the M16 base.

  One indicator of the quality difference; The armies who can afford them , the M16 is chosen over the AKs as their service rifle. They are willing to pay about 3 times more for the M16s.
  For me, the watchword for rifle..should be accuracy, that is why so many varmint & long range coyote hunters use AR15s while few use Aks.  Below is an interesting video featuring the well known Dr Atwater;

  http://splodetv.com/ak-47-vs-m16

the ak vs m16 is something that has gone on for a long time. From with i have readed(G&A, the book of guns, the book AK and other, ) if you have a ak with the same time and money put into it as the m16 there both the same. The AK gives power and the M16 give accuracy. I have used a few ak(ak-74,47) and i have found on the range out to 100 yards it works well. I shot 60 rounds and 30 were heart area, 20 were head and the rest were misses or non killing shots.

I have also readed storys from people in the war about the m4 lack of stopping power. (one was from gun digest book of assault weapons) were he put 5 into a bad guy in a room, as he left he got fire from in back of him. So he put 10 into him again. As he left he got fire from the back again, so he put the hold mag into him.   Anyways the m4 and ak-47 are about the same, just one give better then the other.  The ak can be made into a very small PDW if that what you want too. just look at all the KRINKOV that are for sale.
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Offline ironglow

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Re: is this gun on fire??
« Reply #15 on: May 06, 2010, 10:20:57 AM »
  Jamal;
   My observations come from the special force Marines I know who used them in Ramadi and Fallujah in exactly that same situation. They had no complaints about the killing power of the M-4, since they were set full auto and they gave each enemy combatant a "burst" or two.
  With a firing rate up to 950 rpm, I'm trying to figure hoiw the Gun Digest witness counted 5 and then 10 rounds. With machine guns. the old .30 cal and the "Ma deuce  (.50 cal) we were taught to repeat the words, "fire a burst of six", which would approximate the time duration for 6 shots, and they didn't have the rate of the M4; but closer to the Ak rate of fire.
   If that witness was having trouble keeping his enemy down, his problems were likely elsewhere.  Even considering the mandatory hardball ammo, 5 rounds from a .223 or 7.62X39 should plant the enemy...unless his aim was faulty. Can't blame a fellow if he got a bit of "buck fever" in such a situation. Then too, these same enemy fanatics have been known to "spice up" their courage in that area where so many poppies are grown...really !  ;) :D

  BTW: did you view tha video I furnished in my last post ? It explains in a very fair coverage just why one is more accurate than the other .
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Offline jamaldog87

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Re: is this gun on fire??
« Reply #16 on: May 08, 2010, 07:15:57 AM »
 Jamal;
   My observations come from the special force Marines I know who used them in Ramadi and Fallujah in exactly that same situation. They had no complaints about the killing power of the M-4, since they were set full auto and they gave each enemy combatant a "burst" or two.
  With a firing rate up to 950 rpm, I'm trying to figure hoiw the Gun Digest witness counted 5 and then 10 rounds. With machine guns. the old .30 cal and the "Ma deuce  (.50 cal) we were taught to repeat the words, "fire a burst of six", which would approximate the time duration for 6 shots, and they didn't have the rate of the M4; but closer to the Ak rate of fire.
   If that witness was having trouble keeping his enemy down, his problems were likely elsewhere.  Even considering the mandatory hardball ammo, 5 rounds from a .223 or 7.62X39 should plant the enemy...unless his aim was faulty. Can't blame a fellow if he got a bit of "buck fever" in such a situation. Then too, these same enemy fanatics have been known to "spice up" their courage in that area where so many poppies are grown...really !  ;) :D

  BTW: did you view tha video I furnished in my last post ? It explains in a very fair coverage just why one is more accurate than the other .

they did say that the enemy could have been high.  Islamist terrorist more most often high, just like the Moro Rebellion.

But really the M4 is like the M1 carbine of WW2. Some found it did not have stopping power, others called it the best gun they had. From online.

In the Pacific theatre, soldiers and guerrilla forces operating in heavy jungle with only occasional enemy contact generally praised the carbine for its combination of light weight, short overall length, and accuracy at close ranges. The carbine's exclusive use of non-corrosive primered ammunition was found to be a godsend by troops and ordnance personnel serving in the Pacific, where barrel corrosion was a significant issue with .30-06 weapons such as the M1 Garand rifle and the BAR, though not to the same extent in Europe, where some soldiers reported misfires attributed to the weaker noncorrosive primers.[13] Other soldiers and Marines engaged in frequent daily firefights (particularly those serving in the Philippines) found the weapon to have insufficient stopping power and penetration.[14] Reports of the carbine's failure to stop enemy soldiers, sometimes after multiple hits, appeared in individual after-action reports, postwar evaluations, and service histories of both the U.S. Army and the U.S. Marine Corps.[14] Aware of these shortcomings, the U.S. Army, its Pacific Command Ordnance staff, and the Aberdeen small arms facility continued to work on shortened versions of the Garand throughout the war, though none was ever officially adopted.

Some troops also found the .30 Carbine cartridge incapable of penetrating small trees and light cover, though it was markedly superior to .45 caliber weapons such as the Reising and Thompson submachineguns in accuracy and penetration. Lt. Col. John George, a small arms expert and intelligence officer serving in Burma with Merrill's Marauders, reported that the .30 carbine bullet would easily penetrate the front and back of steel helmets, as well as the body armor[15] used by Japanese forces of the era.[16]

the M1 and m2 are used by the Israeli cops for years. The M1 ball ammo has been found to penetrate light Kevlar body armor and it is well like because it has less flash and blast then a 5.56 gun which makes it more comfort when used in buildings. The also use the CAR 15 from colt,AK and others. I just going by what i hear, but i have also hear storys from Nam vets about the VC takeing 12ga and mortar rounds at close range and not going down ;D
 
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Offline ironglow

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Re: is this gun on fire??
« Reply #17 on: May 09, 2010, 09:45:30 PM »
  Jamal;
  Youir statement, " But really the M4 is like the M1 carbine of WW2..."

  Whew!..That's like saying the 03 Springfield was roughly equivalent to a civil war musket !
  Come now, let's get real..! I was issued the M1 carbine and I own a couple .223s..and believe me, there is NO comparison !
 
   M1 carbine ballistics...110 grains @ 1900 fps = 880 ft lbs of energy.

   5.56 IN m16 ballistics...56 grains @ 3250 fps = 1314 ft lbs of energy.  The M4 may be just a hair less speed, but not by much !

  The 5.56 has it all over the carbine since it's sheer speed produces hydrostatic shock and the bullet tends to tumble when deeply involved in flesh, usually breaking up at the cannelure, with catastrophic effects. The carbine, with it's slow speed and it's hardball ammo rarely deforms. The 9mm Beretta with hardball ammo performs similarly, which has led to complaints about it's stopping power. If hollow or soft point 9mm were allowed, surely the 9mm would fare much better. In any case, comparing the 5.56 round to the .30 cal carbine round is an exercise in futility..there is no relationship.
  Yes, Haji apparently does use some of the mind-bending whacky-tabacky ! The special force Marines I mentioned earlier, did tell me that when they raided the "safe houses" where the terrorists were holed up and finished killing or capturing them, they often found a large room with couches and chairs around the perimeter and a big water-pipe in the middle of the room where each could partake of a long tubing with a mouthpiece. the Marines were obliged to open or break out windows so they did not have to breathe the stuff Haji was smoking.

   As I see it, having been a soldier who was issued a carbine (part of a tanker's T.O.E.), the handiness and appearance of the carbine made the Ruger 10/22 an almost overnight success.
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline 454Puma

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Re: is this gun on fire??
« Reply #18 on: June 29, 2010, 07:36:25 PM »
 ironglow
  Could be why the head shot was the prefered method of dispatching folks in the Rock/Ghan!! They tend not to get back up!  ;D  Atleast until the liberal media made a stink about it! >:(
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Offline ironglow

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Re: is this gun on fire??
« Reply #19 on: June 30, 2010, 12:51:04 AM »
454puma;

   Sorry, I don't quite understand "Rock/Ghan"..but if you are referring to the time the enbedded reporter complained about the Marine who shot the terrorist who was likely "playing possum", it was reported that the same Marine had been hit in the face,sustaining a minor wound in a similar situation.. just a day or two before.

  BTW: The guy in the video...I'm not sure, but I suspect his hat was on right and his head was on backwards !
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)