Keith Bullet Needed

[trouthunterdj]

Hello,

I am going to buy cast bullets for my Mod 97 44 spc.  Which brand of cast bullets do you suggest (Mt. Baldy, Western Bullets, ect)?

I am looking for a 250 gr. Keith for an all-around bullet to use with Unique (Sketters Load)


Thanks again,


ddj

[doghawg]

 I cast my own now but wouldn't hesitate to recommend Montana Bullet Works based on my experiences with them. My guess is .430" would be the best sizing diameter.

[paul105]

I have a 5.5" Freedom Arms M97 .44 special.  My gun's cyl throats run somewhere between .429 and .430 (.429 plug gauge go, .430 no go). and the grove diameter runs close to .431.

This gun is very accurate with the one jacketed bullet (180gr Horn XTP) I've tried (more accurate than I can hold without a scope).

I've had some leading problems with all plain base bullets.  Have tried the following:

1.  240gr RNFP, sized .429”, wheel weights, lubed with Lee Liquid Allox
2.  250gr 429421, .429”, Lyman #2, from Western Bullet.
3.  250gr Keith, .430”, BHN 11 from Mt Baldy.
4.  240gr SWC, .431”, Hard from Laser-Cast
5.  250gr Keith, .431”, Hard from Leadheads
6.  255gr SWC GC (lyman 429244) .430", 22BHN from Montana Bullet Works

The only bullet that I've been able to shoot a lot with very little leading is #.5 --
255gr SWC GC (lyman 429244) .430", 22BHN, LBT Blue lube, from Montana Bullet Works.  The only problem with this bullet is that it is about twice the cost of some of the others.

I've gotten decent results with all of the bullets listed above (right at 2" at 25yds) but they will lead quickly in my gun (less than 50 rounds).

With the exception of #1. above (5.5gr HP38) my loads generally are in the 1100 to 1200 fps range using A2400.

Here are the cast bullet mfgs that I have used in various calibers and configurations with varying degrees of satisfaction (mostly due to individual gun preferences):

Montana Bullet Works http://www.montanabulletworks.com/
Mt Baldy  http://www.mtbaldybullets.com/
Leadheads  http://www.proshootpro.com/
Western Bullet  http://www.westernbullet.com/
Oregon Trail  http://www.laser-cast.com/
Mastercast  http://www.mastercastbullets.com/home.html

This M97 .44 sp is one of my favorites.

Paul

[trouthunterdj]

Thank you Paul.  Good post with alot of helpful information.  I know that my gun will vary some but I wanted to know where to get some different bullets.

How do you remove leading in your 97?

Thanks Again,

ddj

[paul105]

For quick removal of heavy leading, this has worked best for me.  Just wrap it around an old bronze brush (a new one is fine too).  Follow up with one of two below.
http://www.big45metalcleaner.com/

If leading is not too bad, both of the following work quite well.  The bronze wool wrapped around a bronze brush is a little easier to use vs. the Lewis tool.

Bronze wool:
http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=7391/Product/BRONZE_WOOL

Lewis lead remover
http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=21587/Product/LEWIS_LEAD_REMOVER

Be careful.  You will find a number of folks recommending "Chore Boy" kitchen cleaners.  A lot of the newer ones are not pure copper, but rather copper washed stainless steel and could harm your bore.

Paul

[Lloyd Smale]

im pretty good friends with Frank the owner of mt baldy bullets and have shot alot of his bullets. His bullets are top shelf and so is his knowlege level when it comes to picking the right bullet for the job for you. Hes also a caster that doesnt use generic hard alloys or commercial hard lubes. He cast a bullet out of an alloy thats right for the job and lubes them with a lube that really works.

[Autorim]

Mt. Baldy and Montana have both worked well for me. Paul may be pushing a plain base bullet a bit much to expect no leading. I ran a bunch through the chrono yesterday in .41 mag, .44 special and .45 colt. I had a mix of Mt. Baldy, Montana, Beartooth, Missouri, Lasercast and some gifted from a friend cast from wheel weights.
Velocity readings were from about 700 to over 1200. The higher velocity loads were gas check.

All of the guns cleaned up just fine. Maybe a definition of leading is in order. I expect lead and powder residue as I expect copper and powder residue from jacketed bullets. I don't mind as long as accuracy is not degraded and clean up is easy. I just received my first order from Missouri Bullets. Delivery was very quick and the price is right. I am going to test for accuracy as they may become my go to bullet for general shooting.

My every day shooting loads are in the 700-900 range and I have little problem with leading.

Ken

[Lloyd Smale]

Ive shot plain based bullets up to 1400 fps in handguns and near 2000 in rifles without leading. the trick is a good lube and a perfect bullet fit and a good bore but i have to agree with autorim that it is pushing the envelope. Doing it is more for a guy who casts his own and can control his alloy size and lube. After about 1100fps its a good idea to go with a gas checked bullet for the most part. Even things like powder selection and believe it or not even primer selection can add to leading problems. First thing i would do if you really want to push plain based bullets is slug your cylinder and bore and see what size bullets you need. You may need to buy them big and run them through an inexpensive lee sizer die to get what you need. Also go with a company that doesnt use comercial hard lubes. If you have a bunch of bullets that are leading and you want to use them up try putting a coat of lee tumble lube over the lubed bullet and see if that helps.

[trouthunterdj]

Other than the cost factor, is there any problem with shooting a gascheck bullet at slower velocities?  I am thinking about buying 429244 GC's for my special but will shoot many more at 800 fps than 1100.


ddj

[Autorim]

IME, gas check bullets work just fine at any velocity suited for a cast bullet. I have shot thousands of gas check bullets at the low end of .38 special velocities.

[Racer X]

I've shot both Mt. Baldy and Montana Bullet works and by far, prefer Mt. Baldy.

[Wyo. Coyote Hunter]

  I do not cast bullets so except for a few from a friend, most I have bought...my current purchase was the Leadhead bullets...the price was good, and from what I have read, his Keith design, is the closest to Keith's original design...I have not shot many of them, but in my 44's after I got sighted in, I could hit liter pop jugs at 100 yards...now I used a rest...but they seemed very accurate to me..but I am not widely experience in cast bullets...

[Sweetwater]

I am far from expert at this game, but I do have over 20 years of playing with cast bullets. I've bought a bunch and cast my own from wheelweights and range lead and on occasion from linotype or printer's lead. For lube, I've used fairly soft homebrew to Red Rooster and a bunch of stuff in between, though there are a bunch I've never tried. I'm not concerned very much with leading as it doesn't seem to plague my guns. Maybe I've been lucky and maybe it's because I don't go looking for it. I look for accuracy. I don't mix jacketed and cast bullets very much and shoot 95% cast bullets. A normal cleaning session is usually all that is required. I don't shoot competition any more and this works for me.

I usually agree with Lloyd and do on his posts above. The biggee is fit and lube. If they don't fit, you will have a mess. Period. I believe cylinder throats should be equal to or .001 oversize the barrel size. Paul105, it appears your throats are on the tight side. FME, that dictates, gas checks for cast bullets at any kind of velocity. My dad's S&W Model 15 38Spl will lead attrociously with most commercial "hard cast" bullets. He used them because they were cheap and I was too far away to keep him supplied. His problem came from wanting to shoot light loads and he couldn't believe the leading he was getting with these hard bullets over 2.8gr of Bullseye. I bumped him up to 4gr of Bullseye and the leading diminished noticeably, but didn't go away. I gave him a batch of 156gr Thompson's gas checked and sized to fit his revolver, and viola no leading with his preferred 2.8gr of Bullseye. His Cylinder throats are a whisker tighter than his barrel. At his light 2.8gr of Bullseye, even my 150gr Lyman PB bullets do not lead, as they are soft enough to obturate easily at the low pressures. I do use LBT Blue Soft for most of my pistol bullets now.