Blackhawk grip frame question

[coyotejoe]

Are all new model Blackhawks now coming with the steel grip frame? Reason I ask is because I was looking for a Blackhawk .44 special for a friend. Of course they aren't yet on dealer's shelves but it prompted me to check the Ruger website. I was disappointed to see that the .44 special weighs 45 ounces, the same as my flat top .44 mag. I then looked at the .45 Colt and saw that it too had gained 4-6 ounces compared to a year ago. Either they are feeding them too much or they have dropped the aluminum grip frame.

[hunterspistol]

      Sir, if I'm not mistaken the aluminum grip frame still comes on some models, the 41 Remington Magnum specificly.

Ron

[StevenK11]

Just picked up a new Blackhawk 41 magnum with a 6.5" barrel.   Grip and ejector housing are aluminum.   It feels about the same weight as my 5.5" barrel 44 special.   The aluminum doesn't both me, and I like the fact that the longer barrel and frame size of the 41 mag doesn't feel excessive in weight as a whole.

On a side-note:  The 41 magnum I received was actually better in build quality than my 44 special was.  The 44 spl had dings and scratchs in the metal on the sights, casting pit on side of front sight, missing blueing around the cylinder frame area, and a light roll-mark on portions of the caliber stamp on the frame.   The 41 magnum was flawless out of the box; couldn't find a thing wrong with it.  I do like that the 41 mag has the barrel roll-mark warnings moved to the bottom of the barrel, out of sight.  That is something I saw on the 44 spl and was hoping to find the same on the 41 mag.    Makes the whole revolver look classy.   Of course, BOTH shoot excellent.  That's what ultimately is important  

Few additional points:  The 41 mag has an internal lock, but is out of sight.  Also, the Blackhawk does not have the reverse indexing pawl, like the 44 spl and New Vaquero's have.   I thought it would bother me that the clicks don't line up with the ejection of spent cartridges, but it was still easy to do brass ejecting.   One downer, that I knew the Blackhawk would have, was the in-ability to remove the base pin completely.  It bumps up against the ejector tab and can't be removed easily for cleaning like the New Vaquero or 44 spl.   I've read that folks grind the base pin down to allow removing, but will have to research that.

I'll gladly include pics if anyone is interested in what I've mentioned above.

[hunterspistol]

    Just bought one myself! I found Q-tips to help a lot.  They are a little dirty from the factory but shoot nice.  Cylindersmith over at Cast Boolits can open the cylinder for you.  The base pin hasn't really bothered me since I cleaned it and the frame where it fits. I love mine and have 4 molds.  Just started putting ammo together for it. It's a great revolver!
     Ron

[coyotejoe]

I really can't say I'm happy about the change. I find the recoil of the smaller XR3 frame with checkered plastic grips not nearly so comfortable as the XR3 red frame with smooth wood grips. I thought that was the reason for the development of the XR3 red in the first place. I also thought a nice feature of the Blackhawk .45 Colt was it's ability to handle near .44 mag loads without the weight of a Super Blackhawk. Now that advantage is lost as well.

[temmi]

Sorry for coming in late….

Late last year (December 09) I purchased a Black Hawk in 45 LC.

It has black plastic grips…. Am I to understand that the published loads for the Black Hawk should NOT be used with this mod Black Hawk…

If you as Ruger they say do not shoot reloads at all.

Please help me understand…

[hunterspistol]

     The black plastic grips can eat your hands if you shoot full power hunting loads.  As far as not shooting reloads, well, you can be safe, lock up your gun, keep it way out of reach from other people and then figure out what to do if someone invades your home.  If you always do as you are told, you may not defend yourself at all. Same thing with reloads, I shoot lead because my guns will be lasting my lifetime, not the average barrel life with jacketed.
     It takes more than a little effort to reload safely, and even more to shoot them.  It's your call but, their recommendation.
  Ron

[coyotejoe]

Sorry for coming in late….

Late last year (December 09) I purchased a Black Hawk in 45 LC.

It has black plastic grips…. Am I to understand that the published loads for the Black Hawk should NOT be used with this mod Black Hawk…

If you as Ruger they say do not shoot reloads at all.

Please help me understand…

I have no inside information, I'm just comparing the specs in my 2007 catalog against those on Ruger's website and see that all blued Blackhawks, except the .41 mag, have gained weight. I see no reason to think there has been any change to the cylinder or frame, just the grip frame. I believe your Blackhawk .45 Colt should still handle the same loads as those made a few years ago, although the smaller checkered plastic grips won't be as comfortable as the larger smooth wood grips were.

[temmi]

Thanks for all your replies!

[coyotejoe]

OK, they still do make the aluminum alloy grip frame although it now comes with the skinny checkered plastic grips. I just got a 5 1/2 Blackhawk in .45 Colt. It weights 38.5 ounces and a magnet does not stick to the grip frame. It is a totally different grip frame from the old XR-3 red but it is still alloy.

[flatgate]

OK, they still do make the aluminum alloy grip frame ....................It is a totally different grip frame from the old XR-3 red but it is still alloy.

 

Hmm, I see that the two left side revolvers, in the above image which is linked directly to SR&Co.'s web site, are sporting XR3-RED shaped grip frames.  Am I missing something here?  I figure the black grip equipped revolvers are fitted with the mainspring strut lock system, as well.

flatgate

[helotaxi]

OK, they still do make the aluminum alloy grip frame ....................It is a totally different grip frame from the old XR-3 red but it is still alloy.

 

Hmm, I see that the two left side revolvers, in the above image which is linked directly to SR&Co.'s web site, are sporting XR3-RED shaped grip frames.  Am I missing something here?  I figure the black grip equipped revolvers are fitted with the mainspring strut lock system, as well.

I have a Blackhawk convertible of recent manufacture and the grip frame is alloy.  Internally it is different than the older models to accommodate that infernal action lock.  The outer profile is likely the same as the older ones, I don't have an older one to compare it to.  The black plastic grips wholly suck with full house .357 mag loads I can't imagine how uncomfortable dialed up .45 Colt loads would be.

[flexjr]

i remember reading john taffin in a handgunner or guns recently stating that ruger would be putting xr3 grip frames on all blued blackhawks in the near future. the black checkered grips do sting a bit on my 41 mag especially with 250 cpb's at around 1300 or more but it is better imo than the gun spinning around in my hand and burrying the hammer in the web of my hand. I have a 44 special flattop and have put the xr3 on the 41. surprisingly enough the difference in weight with the steel grip frame is negligible. i am going to do a bisley conversion to my 41 though, as i like the bisley shape for the loads i plan on shooting in my 41.

[helotaxi]

Yep, I've got the Brownells Bisley conversion for mine as well  Just need to get around to fitting it and finding a 'smith to blue it for me.  Need to order a mainspring seat to eliminate the action lock.  Also need to find a set of grips that I like for it also.

[zoner]

i just finished this one....4 5/8 45 LC NMBH with bisley hammer and trigger fitted to alloy grip frame w/Hogue grips

[helotaxi]

It has black plastic grips…. Am I to understand that the published loads for the Black Hawk should NOT be used with this mod Black Hawk…

The New Vaquero is smaller and not able to withstand the pressures that the Blackhawk can.  The Blackhawk is still built like a brick outhouse.

[coyotejoe]

OK, they still do make the aluminum alloy grip frame ....................It is a totally different grip frame from the old XR-3 red but it is still alloy.

 

Hmm, I see that the two left side revolvers, in the above image which is linked directly to SR&Co.'s web site, are sporting XR3-RED shaped grip frames.  Am I missing something here?  I figure the black grip equipped revolvers are fitted with the mainspring strut lock system, as well.

flatgate

The difference in shape is really hard to spot in a photo, you have to see the two side by side.

[coyotejoe]

I emailed ruger customer service with the following question;
Since the grip frame of New Model Blackhawks has been changed will after market grips made for the XR-3 red frame fit the new grip frame? Are new Blackhawk grip frames the same as new Vaquero grip frames?
And received this response:
Response:
"The blued Blackhawks have a different frame with the internal lock. The frame is different than the XR-3 Red and New Vaquero. The stainless Blackhawk grip frames have not changed."

So now it would seem that if ordering after market grips one will have to specify "New" New model Blackhawk, blued.

[flatgate]

Ruger's info is rather vaque, IMHO.   My best guess is that the current production Blackhawks that have the "protected" rear sights still use an XR3-RED shaped grip frame but with the mainspring strut lock. Perhaps the grip dowel has been relocated.....

I bet Cary Chapman of CLC grips could provide us with an accurate answer.....

flatgate

[Ak.Hiker]

The blued Blackhawk in 45 Colt and 41 Magnum are both made with the aluminum grip frame. They are lighter than the other models with the steel grip frames. This is one reason that one of my favorite packing guns for the woods is the 4 5/8 inch 45 Colt Blackhawk. This gun is lighter than a S&W 44 Magnum Mountain Gun and will handle hot 45 Colt loads like the 300 grain CorBon. If you are looking for a 44 Special with the aluminum grip frame I read a few months ago that Ruger was going to make both steel and aluminum grip frame models. I think that a 34 oz. 4 5/8 inch 44 Special loaded with a 250 grain hardcast Skeeter Skelton load would be a fine packing gun. I hope they come out with the lighter 44 Special.

[zoner]

i was thinking along the same lines with the gun i posted above. The 45LC 4 5/8 barrel with alloy grip frame is the lightest config you can get for a NMBH

[flatgate]

The 45LC 4 5/8 barrel with alloy grip frame is the lightest config you can get for a NMBH

I have to chuckle a bit.  I've spent a considerable sum of money making my short barreled .44's and .45's heavier so they are
eminently more comfortable to shoot high power loads.   



A short barreled .44 Flattop and a OM .45 Colt.   Brass grip frames from the long gone QPR outfit.

JMHO,

flatgate

[zoner]

a local Indian tribe released about 35 pigs a couplee years ago and now they are spread out in a large area of the Cleveland National Forest. I will be scouting this area soon and besides the pigs the area has a significant mountain lion population....so i wanted the punch of a big bore(45LC) in the lightest config i could get......for packin around all day. I'm thinkin a hard cast 250 gr bullet @ 950-1000 fps.....i should be pretty safe    BTW flatgate i see you also have a fondness for the short barreled Ruger SA......nice guns.....Mike

[Duke0313]

Just bought a stainless steel grip frame and base pin for my blued Blackhawk in .41 mag, get me some nice grips to put on and it will be lookin' SWEET!

[bluecow]

Flatgate love the looks of that flattop!

[caryc]

Ruger's info is rather vaque, IMHO.   My best guess is that the current production Blackhawks that have the "protected" rear sights still use an XR3-RED shaped grip frame but with the mainspring strut lock. Perhaps the grip dowel has been relocated.....

I bet Cary Chapman of CLC grips could provide us with an accurate answer.....

flatgate

Below is the info I have on the locks so far.  As far as the comment of JT saying that Ruger was going to put the steel XR3 grip frame on all the Blackhawks, I would not count on the accuracy of that.  Why would they go to all the trouble of making a new mold for the alloy XR3-RED style frame to accommodate the lock if they were going to discontinue it and use the steel XR3?  It just doesn't make sense. The only Blackhawks with the steel XR3 grip frame on them are the new Flattops.

In 2005 Ruger came out with the New Vaquero.  This newer smaller version of the Vaquero had a new steel copy of the old aluminum XR3 grip frame that Ruger used on their single action revolvers from 1953 to 1962.  In trying to satisfy the Cowboy Shooter crowd and emulate the Colt, they made the grip frame only 7/16" in width whereas the original XR3 aluminum frame was 1/2" in width.  The new locks they had for these grip frames are wider than 7/16" so they stick out on each side of the grip frame.  The locks are .480” in width.
 
This was no problem since they put molded black plastic grips on the New Vaqueros.  They are concave in the backs so the locks did not interfere with the grips at all.  However if you put a flat backed wood grip on the gun, it needed to have recesses in the backs to fit over the locks.  The only guns that have this New Steel XR3 grip frame so far are the New Vaquero, the two 50th Anniversary flat tops (.357 & .44 mag), the Montado, and the now Ruger cataloged .44 special flat top.  So, the only guns to have that narrow steel XR3 grip frame are either the New Vaquero or the New Flat Tops.  Beware that the new flat tops say Blackhawk on the side of the gun but as I said they are flat top Blackhawks.
 
OK now on to the regular Blackhawks.  Maybe a year or two ago Ruger installed the locks in the aluminum Blackhawk grip frames also.  But they left the grip frames at 1/2" in width which is wider than the locks so any flat backed grips do not need any recesses in the backs to clear the locks.
 
As far as I know, so far none of the stainless grip frames have locks in them except for the stainless New XR3 as used on the New Vaquero and stainless flat tops.  I have been told by customers that they called Ruger and were told that the plastic grips sold for the new blackhawks would not fit an older blackhawk because they were made for guns with locks.  So even the people at Ruger (well at least the telephone sales people) don't know what the hell is going on since those new black plastic Blackhawk grips will fit the Blackhawks as well.

Any flat backed wood grip made to fit the regular Blackhawk XR3-RED sized grip frame will fit the new Blackhawks with the locks in the frames with no problem.  The regular Blackhawks (non flattop) still have the alloy XR3-RED sized grip frames on them.  The only difference is that it now contains the internal lock.

[texagun]

Here's some good info with photos:

http://www.gunblast.com/Hamm_Ruger-SA-GripFrames.htm