Author Topic: Safari Gun for fun. Help me with caliber. (Read 3016 times)

jay29 · « **on:** December 13, 2010, 05:06:58 PM »

I want a large bore gun to round out my collection. No intentions of going to Africa or Alaska. I only shoot deer with my .30-06 as far as hunting goes. I shoot a Ruger Super Red Hawk .454 Casull for target shooting and for fun and not hunting.

I would like a "elephant gun" for the range, but undecided about caliber. .375 H&H most people would say considering price and not shooting game. Considering I handload ALL my ammunition I use, commercial ammo is not a factor. I guess I am trying to say what is the most accurate? .375 H&H, .416 Rigby, or .458 Winchester? I am not recoil shy. What would you choose in my situation?

GUN: CZ 550 Safari Magnum

45-70.gov · « **Reply #1 on:** December 13, 2010, 05:15:51 PM »

i have always siad i need an ''elephant gun'' too

for me it had to be the 458 win mag
and now i cast for the 45-70 projectiles are cheap and easy

then i saw the 375 ruger for about $400.......if it were stainless i would have it now
hope they still have them in a month.......i am broke now

the 375 anything would be more practical/versitile
the 458 and you KNOW you have the real thing....and a stopper too

you might want to price ammo too

mauserand9mm · « **Reply #2 on:** December 13, 2010, 05:32:28 PM »

Get the 375H&H first (you won't stop there) and then I'd recommend the 458Lott (If it wasn't a CZ550, I'd recommend the 458WM instead). (The 375H&H is technically a medium bore and may not be classed as an elephant rifle cartridge in some cases.)

This is exactly what I did but I got the 458WM. About 50% of the CZs (or even the old Brnos) jam in 458WM, and the problem goes away when they rechamber to the 458Lott. Spire pointed projectiles (Woodleigh "Protected Points") almost solve the problem in my 458WM. There are other close Mauser derivatives that suffer this problem - the case is too short and comes out of the magazine at a sharp angle with the projectile getting caught up inside the recess for the extractor. Typically only rounds from the left hand side of the staggered magazine do this. The 375H&H and 416Rigby work fine in the CZ action though.

The recoil on the 416 Rigby is worse (more of a sharp slap) than the 458WM even though energy is about the same - I believe that it is becase the 416 Rigby uses 30-40gns more powder than the 458WM.

It's also worth getting the bedding sorted out the CZs before you start using them - this is easy enough to do yourself.

davem270win · « **Reply #3 on:** December 14, 2010, 09:34:34 AM »

Personally, I'm thinking Ruger Alaskan in 416 Ruger.

blacklab1 · « **Reply #4 on:** December 19, 2010, 09:30:02 AM »

I had a 416 Taylor built on a Browning FN action and stock. It's fun to shoot and light enough to carry.
I hope to use it for Grizzly and Moose, I just haven't seen a draw since I had it built.

Knucklehead · « **Reply #5 on:** December 19, 2010, 01:16:44 PM »

I too "needed" an African caliber, and knew I would never afford a double. I chose a No 1 in .416 Rigby (cant get much more african than that!) and I like it. A lot......

kingj · « **Reply #6 on:** December 21, 2010, 04:58:36 AM »

I have a #1 rebarreled by SSK in .470 NE. Load it to "hot" 45-70 specs. Not to many elefunts here in north Fla.

jls · « **Reply #7 on:** December 21, 2010, 05:55:47 AM »

I also had ssk rebarrel a #1 for me but in 505 Gibbs. At 200 plus change for ten rounds I don't shoot many factory rnds through it. no practical use for it where I live but I have something no one else has in this area so its good for the comments I get. First time I lit one off the neighbors down the road called and wanted to know if I was dynamiting a new stock tank. I think my post CHRISTmas present to myself will be to pick up some dies and start reloading. something a little lighter than factory would make a interesting pest load.

Grumulkin · « **Reply #8 on:** December 23, 2010, 09:53:54 AM »

Quote from: jay29 on December 13, 2010, 05:06:58 PM

I want a large bore gun to round out my collection. No intentions of going to Africa or Alaska. I only shoot deer with my .30-06 as far as hunting goes. I shoot a Ruger Super Red Hawk .454 Casull for target shooting and for fun and not hunting.

I would like a "elephant gun" for the range, but undecided about caliber. .375 H&H most people would say considering price and not shooting game. Considering I handload ALL my ammunition I use, commercial ammo is not a factor. I guess I am trying to say what is the most accurate? .375 H&H, .416 Rigby, or .458 Winchester? I am not recoil shy. What would you choose in my situation?

GUN: CZ 550 Safari Magnum

First of all, I'll admit I'm biased. I think the Johnny-come-lately big bore Ruger cartridges were never needed. When wanting a .375 caliber handgun, I did consider the 375 Ruger but discarded that idea in favor of a 375 H&H Magnum after checking availability and price of brass. Kenya, by the way, was the only African country that mandated larger diameter bores than .375 for elephant hunting but that country has been closed to all hunting for several decades so in my opinion, it doesn't count.

As for the rifle, I think the CZ 550 Safari Magnum is a good choice. I have one in 458 Lott. As for accuracy, I think between 458 Lott and 375 H&H Magnum, the nod would have to go to the 375 H&H Magnum. When you're going with a long action anyway, I think a 458 Win. Mag. chambering is a waste. What to choose, what to choose? When you want to let your friends (or enemies) shoot your gun, you'll be happy you handed them a 458 Lott.

The older CZ 550s needed bedding and/or cross bolts to avoid split stocks. The newer ones come with cross bolts so stock splitting shouldn't be a problem. When I got mine, I price it in a number of stores and, surprising to me, Cabela's had the best price. They also had 3 to choose from and I got one with quite nice wood.

45-70.gov · « **Reply #9 on:** December 23, 2010, 12:46:06 PM »

375 ruger

howa 1500 stainless!!!!

$409 ......[$349 for the blue]

some one talk me out of it before i order it tomorrow!

my other favorite rifle is stainless howa 1500 in 308 win

nomosendero · « **Reply #10 on:** December 23, 2010, 04:35:45 PM »

Quote from: 45-70.gov on December 23, 2010, 12:46:06 PM

375 ruger

howa 1500 stainless!!!!

$409 ......[$349 for the blue]

some one talk me out of it before i order it tomorrow!

my other favorite rifle is stainless howa 1500 in 308 win

Is that a barreled action price?
No can do, I want one too!! I have sev. days off, you may need it sent here first!!

45-70.gov · « **Reply #11 on:** December 24, 2010, 08:31:55 AM »

with hogue stocks........

nomosendero · « **Reply #12 on:** December 24, 2010, 01:42:42 PM »

Amazing buy!!

Dogshooter · « **Reply #13 on:** December 27, 2010, 03:51:28 AM »

I have a Ruger 77RSM chambered for 458 Lott. The Lott case is only .3 inch longer than the .458 Winchester, which is just enough to accept the few additional grains of propellant needed to push a 500-grain bullet 300 fps faster than the Winchester cartridge. An added benefit is that Lott-chambered rifles will safely chamber and fire standard .458 Winchester ammo. The case is made from the .375 H&H case. Hornady makes factory ammo for it too. I have used mine for all kinds of game and it sure gives you a warm fuzzy feeling when hunting in areas you know holds Grizzly. Haven't used it for that yet, just nice to have along for those trips.

45-70.gov · « **Reply #14 on:** December 27, 2010, 01:07:10 PM »

i ordered it today

bikerbeans · « **Reply #15 on:** December 27, 2010, 04:03:36 PM »

I shouldn't have read this thread, I think it is going to cost me some $$$$.

BB

45-70.gov · « **Reply #16 on:** December 28, 2010, 05:21:45 AM »

it just cost me

between the tremendous deal
the same model as my 308 deer gun
THIS THREAD

it will have the sand colared hogue stock

due to recent finncial problems....i didn't order any bullts
now that is torture.......also what to scope it with??

dukkillr · « **Reply #17 on:** December 28, 2010, 06:25:17 AM »

I just came from the howa website and couldn't find the deal you guys were talking about? Was it a pre-Christmas thing or are you looking at a dealer? Website?

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #18 on:** December 28, 2010, 08:02:40 AM »

Get yourself a Win. 95 in 405 .

mcwoodduck · « **Reply #19 on:** December 28, 2010, 08:35:06 AM »

I have a 375H&H and really like it.
Ammo, projectiles, brass are all easy to abtain.
the 375 is siutable for Deer, elk, and wild boar.
The 458 Win is a 30-06 length case and the 458 Lott is the 375H&H opened up to 458.
The win can be fired in the 458 lott. Brass and bullets for the 458 Win being easy to come by.
As I said I really like my 375H&H it has the horse power and is cheap enough to shoot even with factory loads.
When standing the 375 gives and shove with athourity, off the bench it is a beast. most people can handle the recoil of the 375.
The Remington 270 grain bullets run about $50 for 20. The 416 Rigby is a little more than $10 a round factory.
Here is a picture of a pair of 375H&H next to a 30-06 45-70, and a 223. One is a Rem 270 grain soft point the other is an A squared 300 grain monolith solid. At the range I poked through a 1/2 gong with this round at 100 yards.
The CZ 550 safari is a Magnum action. May as well get a bullet that fills the action.

45-70.gov · « **Reply #20 on:** December 28, 2010, 10:55:50 AM »

the distributor i ordered it from has 5 left i was told

message me or have your ffl contact me

if he can't get one from my supplier... i will see what i can do

kombi1976 · « **Reply #21 on:** January 05, 2011, 05:32:47 AM »

Quote from: Knucklehead on December 19, 2010, 01:16:44 PM

I too "needed" an African caliber, and knew I would never afford a double. I chose a No 1 in .416 Rigby (cant get much more african than that!) and I like it. A lot......

I was the same.
I already had a Tikka T3 in 9.3x62 but dreamed of a proper African rifle.
So I went for a No1 in 450/400 Nitro Express 3", the original all round cartridge before the advent of the 375 H&H.
There's something sensual and slick about the NE cartridges and it's as close as I'll get to a double this side of 50 (I'm 37! $:-\$ ).

Quote from: 45-70.gov on December 23, 2010, 12:46:06 PM

375 ruger

howa 1500 stainless!!!!

$409 ......[$349 for the blue]

some one talk me out of it before i order it tomorrow!

my other favorite rifle is stainless howa 1500 in 308 win

Good buy there.
Just make sure that the Hogue stock you get isn't the one with the fore end that flexs.
A mate here had issues with that on his 22-250 Howa 1500.

bikerbeans · « **Reply #22 on:** January 05, 2011, 08:54:54 AM »

This thread made me do a lot of research on the safari cartridges. I think I really need a 450 NE 3.25". Ruger #1 is sweet, but my budget will not support one, I may have to rent a reamer and go after one of my 45 caliber singles?

BB

kombi1976 · « **Reply #23 on:** January 06, 2011, 01:14:28 AM »

What sort of action are you proposing to the build it on?
The rim size is massive so it's not conducive to bolt guns, not even I think magnum actions.

bikerbeans · « **Reply #24 on:** January 06, 2011, 02:08:12 AM »

breakopen single shot that is already chambered in 45-70. Cartridge drawings I found shows the 450 NE case not that much larger than a 45-120. I believe there is at least one GBO member that has already rechambered a single shot to 450 NE.

Dixie Dude · « **Reply #25 on:** January 06, 2011, 02:43:47 AM »

I've read somewhere on this site, that the .375 has the same ballistics as the 30-06. JJHackinsac I believe it was said that if you shoot a 30-06 well you can shoot a 375 to the same spot.

AtlLaw · « **Reply #26 on:** January 06, 2011, 03:18:12 AM »

Quote from: bikerbeans on January 06, 2011, 02:08:12 AM

...the 450 NE case not that much larger than a 45-120.

Cummon BB!

My 450 Sharps Express (aka 45-120 Sharps) is every bit the cartridge the 450 NE is!

After checking I figger what the 450 Nitro will do in a Handi the 45-120 will do!

I was thinking about the NE before I did the 45-120 and talked about it with Tim. He told me in effect, take a look at the cost of brass and dies and see if a few more grains of powder is worth the cost!

It ain't to me!

the 45-120 can drive a jacketed 500 gr. bullet to more then 2100 fps. I believe the factory NE load was a 480 gr. @ 2150. And that 500 gr. Sharps round darn sure ain't agonna be my everyday plinking load!

bikerbeans · « **Reply #27 on:** January 06, 2011, 01:52:04 PM »

AtlLaw,

Already have a 32" 45-120, it's my plinkin' gun.

I haven't made it to the 2100 FPS with a 500 grainer yet, but I am heading that way! I just thought I might need the 450 NE in case an elephant jumps the fence at the local zoo.

BB

mcwoodduck · « **Reply #28 on:** January 06, 2011, 02:17:47 PM »

Quote from: bikerbeans on January 06, 2011, 01:52:04 PM

AtlLaw,

Already have a 32" 45-120, it's my plinkin' gun. I haven't made it to the 2100 FPS with a 500 grainer yet, but I am heading that way! I just thought I might need the 450 NE in case an elephant jumps the fence at the local zoo.

BB

You say that in Jest. Knowing Elephants do not hop or jump.
But I rememer an Elephant that got loose from a Circus in Hawaii. Killed the trainer and caused all kinds of Havoc. police were empting mag after mag into the elephant from their pistols till some one was able to dump a box or two of 30-30 into her to bring her down.
I used to live just a few miles from the Wild Animal Park in Southern CA. Where they housed cape buffalo, hippo, Rino, elephant and a few big cats. The Animal Park is the breeding ground for the San Diego Zoo and the animals live in large open pens. and most just has a vine covered chain link between them, freedom and a couple miles of open ground to my yard. Oh and there are a few Ostrich farms along the road there too. Not sure if a loose ostrich is dangerous but a 7' turkey may make too tempting of a target of oppertunity.
The 300 grain A square solids were always on top of the gun locker and the 375 H&H was first at the door.
I now live close to the San Francisco zoo and have not been there to see what seperates the big five and a few others dangerous game animals from me and freedom but it is on my list of things to check out.