pistol-cartridge rifle accuracy .357

[Awf Hand]

I have an NEF Handi-Rifle chambered in .357mag.  No I'm not going to rechamber it to Max.
I have handloaded cartridges that are in the sub 2" range at 100yds, but I'm wondering what the limits of accuracy are with this cartridge.  From what I can see this thing has the following working against it:

The chamber has the deepest throat I've seen.
The .358" dia. 158gr. bullets have the ballistic coefficient of a UPS truck.
I'm only willing to buy the least expensive available bullets and primers, while using the least amount of powder.

My next attempt will be to trim, flash-hole uniform, and "neck size" to obtain even better accuaracy.

Anybody have any thoughts on getting the cheapest to perform the best?
-My Pinto is not ready for Daytona, yet. :?

[gewehrfreund]

Neck sizing only is always a good idea to keep things as centered in the chamber as much as possible, but I would not think that trimming or primer hole uniforming will benefit this gun much at all.
I have been playing with a RUger #1 in 357 Mag. off and on for years and the best I have been able to do with a 4 or 6x scope is just a little more than 1 inch at 100 yds. Going cheap and getting the best accuracy is always an iffy proposition (I know because I keep trying).
My best luck has been with the 180 grain bullets designed for single shot pistols, but I have also done well with Remington 150gr rifle bullets which are no longer available.
In short, your quest may be a never-ending one, but here's a tip: if you haven't tried IMR 800X powder yet, give it a try. It's my favorite for the 357 Mag. (second favorite is Reloder 7).

[Awf Hand]

Greetings riflefriend.

I'm hoping I can get down to the 1" more or less level in this rifle.  My thinking with the trimming is keeping crimps uniform.  If the brass is all the same length and my die sets aren't moving, all of my crimps should be the same and all of my bullets will release uniformly.  Yeah, I know, in a rifle crimping is not necessary.  I've found that my velocities are more uniform and higher when I put a slight crimp on the loaded rounds.  I also get a cleaner and more complete burn. BUT, all the crimps must be uniform.  
I did buy a box of the 180gr. Hornady XTP's to try, but that was with a gift cert. and went against my cheap load ideals.  I've been buying Win and Rem. and even found some Ranier plated on sale in 158gr.  I have experiments to do with primers, but, thus far, I've found that Acc #9 has proved the most consistant.  H-110 is next on the list.  Any other tips on getting to the magic 1" range?

[Dragon31]

The usual stuff:

1. always use the same kind of brass.
2. always insert the brass in the reloading die the same way each time.  Look at the markings on the base of the brass or make your own to do this.
3.  always insert the cartridge in the chamber of your rifle the same way.  Again look at the markings on your brass for referrence.
4.  I suggest that you try the Remington 180 gr JHP and seat them out until they begin touching the thrat of your rifle then back adjust your seating die down a 1/4 of a turn.  This will not usually fit the groves on the bullet but will work fine if you use a taper crimp.

[Awf Hand]

I've tried 180's seated as far out as was possible.  The zany thing with this rifle is that the throat is SOOOOO deep.

I can drop a 180gr bullet into the chamber and a loaded 158gr SWC will drop in behind it and be almost flush with the rim groove on the back of the bbl.
I may be brushing the limits of accuracy that can be obtained with this kind of chamber/throat combination.

[Dragon31]

Awf:

Two thoughts.

1.  The Remington 180's are a lot different than the Hornady's.  Have you tried one of them or just a 180 gr bullet?

2.  Have you tried to chamber a .357 Max piece of brass in the chamber.  Maybe the entire chamber is over sized.

[PaulS]

I have an NEF Handi-Rifle chambered in .357mag.  No I'm not going to rechamber it to Max.
I have handloaded cartridges that are in the sub 2" range at 100yds, but I'm wondering what the limits of accuracy are with this cartridge.  From what I can see this thing has the following working against it:

The chamber has the deepest throat I've seen.
The .358" dia. 158gr. bullets have the ballistic coefficient of a UPS truck.
I'm only willing to buy the least expensive available bullets and primers, while using the least amount of powder.

My next attempt will be to trim, flash-hole uniform, and "neck size" to obtain even better accuaracy.

Anybody have any thoughts on getting the cheapest to perform the best?
-My Pinto is not ready for Daytona, yet. :?

Awf Hand,

using a Hornady or Speer 180 grain rifle bullet seated LONG with a magnum primer and 15.6 grains of H110 will give you near rifle accuracy. My experience has been with the Speer bullet crimped in the cannelure, it most likely won't feed through the magazine but they are accurate.

PaulS

[Winter Hawk]

PaulS,

I'm sorry, I can't resist... Since when did the NEF HandiRifle have a magazine???    

-WH-

[JPH45]

Knowing that you don't want to rechamber to the Maximum, I rechambered my NEF to 357 Maximum to resolve the problem you are having.  Several things, I discovered after the rechamber that the 1.42" I had for a chamber length was the same as the chamber length for the DW360. Starline makes this brass. I would suggest getting a bit of 357 Maximum brass and trimming it down untill you have the length that closes properly and ejects too. (make up a dummy with bullet for testing) My chamber and throat together were so long from the factory, the mouth of a 357 Magnum case was a full 1/4" from the base of a bullet that rested against the lands. No matter what you do, this kind of condition is contrary to the accuracy you seek, and while a few loads may give decent results, none will be consistent. There will always be unexplained flyers and groups will not exhibit the uniformity  of shape that is the mark of reliable accuracy. You speak of using Accurate Arms #9 and H110. It is possible that you may benefit from going to the opposite extreme or slower velocities with faster powders. In my Maximum I am driving a Lee cast bullet of 158 grains with 10 grains of 5744 for a velocity of 915 fps. This load shoots 1"-1.25" at 75 yards and is very uniform statistically and gives very uniform groups as well. I have yet to try fast pistol powders like Titewad or Bullseye but I think these may work just as well.  Hope this helps, Good Shooting, JP

[PaulS]

Winter Hawk,

Well I guess it must be oldtimers disease kicking in. :oops:  I was thinking of the lever action carbines when I posted so its either my eyes or mind - I can still recognize a pretty girl so it isn't the eyes  :-D

PaulS

[marlinman93]

Awf Hand,
 Have you ever tried to shoot this gun by breechseating the bullet, followed by a cartridge? With the long throat, you might get better accuracy by simply dropping the bullet into the chamber, and seating the cartridge behind it.
 I have one single shot that I can seat the bullet into the neck of the case just slightly touching the first lube ring, (about 1/8") and it shoots very good groups that way.
 I make up my loaded cases beforehand, and put a small cardboard wad over the powder to hold it in place. Then I simply push the bullet into the case to the lube ring, and chamber it. With a hand re-de capper, I can reload easily and keep shooting.  You might give this a try, next time you're at the range.

[Badnews Bob]

Try looking at some Dan Wesson .360 cases they are just a little longer than a magnum case, might take care of the long throat and adds a little more capacity to boot same bore just longer case Midway has them if yer intersted.