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Offline bikerbeans

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223 @ da range
« on: July 28, 2010, 04:04:19 AM »
I recently posted that my 223 Ultra 1:9 didn't care for BT bullets.  Well yesterday it found one it liked.  55 grain HPBTs Seirra, and these where bullets I pulled with an inertia puller because my wife said they kicked too much in her 22-250.  These bullets also had a "waist" around the shank from the Lee Factory crimp die.  I almost pitched them but decided to reload these for my 223 and figured I would plink clay pidgeons with them at a later date.  

Yesterday I took the 55 grain seirras to the range and shot a couple of 3/4" group @ 100 yards, which is pretty much the best shooting I am capable of with this or any other gun.  ;D  I then let the gun cool and fired a 3 shot group at a 200 yard target and got a 1.45" group @ 200 yards.  This gun has the factory trigger which it probably why most of my groups spread more left to right than up and down.  

I made up for a good 223 group by then shooting a miserable 45/120 group, almost 10" @ 200 yards.  >:(

After shooting the 3 shot 223 group @ 200 yards, I fired a fourth round by the "Free Recoil" method.  It grouped the same left to right but the POI was several inches higher, it is the hole near the top of the target a little to the right.  I normally shoot my 35 cal and down handis by holding the front of the receiver at the pivot pin with my left thumb and index finger.  On the free recoil 223 shot my left hand was not on the rifle.

BB
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RIP Tom: Tom Nolan, ( bikerbeans) passed away this afternoon (02-04-2021).

Why be difficult, when with a little extra effort you can be impossible?

Wife's Handis;  300 BLKOUT

MINE:  270W, 308x444, 44 Bodeen, 410 shorty rifled slug gun, 445 SuperMag Shikari, 45 ACP shorty,  45-70 Shikari, 45 Cal Smokeless MZ, 50cal 24" SS Sidekick, 50 cal 24" Huntsman, 50 cal 26" Huntsman, 50 cal 26" Sidekick, 50-70 Govt Shikari, Tracker II 20 ga shorty, 20 ga VR Pardner, 20ga USH, 12ga VR NWTF, 12ga Tracker II shorty WITHOUT scope, 12ga USH, 10 ga  Pardner Smoothbore slug gun & 24ga Profino Custom rifled slug gun.

Offline petemi

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Re: 223 @ da range
« Reply #1 on: July 28, 2010, 04:34:57 AM »
Tom, Hey are ya goin?

Not holding the rifle is going to give you more muzzle jump and more elevation.  I use it frequently on long shots just for that reason.  If a rifle is sighted in at 200, I can plink a chuck at 250 by simply not hanging on to the rifle.

Pete
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Offline bikerbeans

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Re: 223 @ da range
« Reply #2 on: July 28, 2010, 05:27:46 AM »
Pete,

About 95% sure on going.  I have a place to stay and I just need to drive to Brighton and my friend will take me the rest of the way.  As long as I feel good I will make it, just some days aren't so good.

Tom
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RIP Tom: Tom Nolan, ( bikerbeans) passed away this afternoon (02-04-2021).

Why be difficult, when with a little extra effort you can be impossible?

Wife's Handis;  300 BLKOUT

MINE:  270W, 308x444, 44 Bodeen, 410 shorty rifled slug gun, 445 SuperMag Shikari, 45 ACP shorty,  45-70 Shikari, 45 Cal Smokeless MZ, 50cal 24" SS Sidekick, 50 cal 24" Huntsman, 50 cal 26" Huntsman, 50 cal 26" Sidekick, 50-70 Govt Shikari, Tracker II 20 ga shorty, 20 ga VR Pardner, 20ga USH, 12ga VR NWTF, 12ga Tracker II shorty WITHOUT scope, 12ga USH, 10 ga  Pardner Smoothbore slug gun & 24ga Profino Custom rifled slug gun.

Offline briannmilewis

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Re: 223 @ da range
« Reply #3 on: July 28, 2010, 02:41:55 PM »
Quote from: bikerbeans on July 28, 2010, 04:04:19 AM
...shot a couple of 3/4" group @ 100 yards, which is pretty much the best shooting I am capable of with this or any other gun.  ;D  I then let the gun cool and fired a 3 shot group at a 200 yard target and got a 1.45" group @ 200 yards.  This gun has the factory trigger which it probably why most of my groups spread more left to right than up and down.  

BB

The 3/4@100 and 1.4@200 is very consistent. More and more it looks like I will get a 223 as the first rifle in my restocking based mainly on GBO posts. Thanks for taking the time and trouble to post the info.
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Offline moorepower

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Re: 223 @ da range
« Reply #4 on: July 28, 2010, 03:49:16 PM »
Have you tried them with out the factory crimp die? All the bullet makers will tell you it is damaging the jacket if there is no canalure to crimp in. I know there are guys that swear by them, but on a single shot there is no need for a crimp. Either way it looks like you are pointed in the right direction. What are you using for powder and primer?
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Offline bikerbeans

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Re: 223 @ da range
« Reply #5 on: July 28, 2010, 04:07:11 PM »
Moorepower,

The bullets where pulled from 22-250 cases that had been crimped with a Lee FC die.  That was when I noticed the "waist" this die put on the shank.  I guess I was puzzled that they shot well when load the second time in a 223 case.  I am going to get some more of these bullets and load them for 223 and see what happens.  I am going to get a bushing die and size the neck so the ID is .001" less than the bullet OD.  Will not crimp the new rounds. 

Load data for July 26th:

2.28" OAL
55 grain Seirra HPBT
25.0 grain Ramshot TAC
CCI Small Rifle Primer
Very mild Lee Factory Crimp when loaded in the 223 case
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RIP Tom: Tom Nolan, ( bikerbeans) passed away this afternoon (02-04-2021).

Why be difficult, when with a little extra effort you can be impossible?

Wife's Handis;  300 BLKOUT

MINE:  270W, 308x444, 44 Bodeen, 410 shorty rifled slug gun, 445 SuperMag Shikari, 45 ACP shorty,  45-70 Shikari, 45 Cal Smokeless MZ, 50cal 24" SS Sidekick, 50 cal 24" Huntsman, 50 cal 26" Huntsman, 50 cal 26" Sidekick, 50-70 Govt Shikari, Tracker II 20 ga shorty, 20 ga VR Pardner, 20ga USH, 12ga VR NWTF, 12ga Tracker II shorty WITHOUT scope, 12ga USH, 10 ga  Pardner Smoothbore slug gun & 24ga Profino Custom rifled slug gun.

Offline moorepower

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Re: 223 @ da range
« Reply #6 on: July 28, 2010, 04:15:16 PM »
You might want to try the BR4 primers if you can find them. I have both the Redding bushing dies and the Lee collet dies, and the Lee actually works pretty good on the .223. It looks like you found a bullet it really likes though.
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Offline tacklebury

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Re: 223 @ da range
« Reply #7 on: July 28, 2010, 05:24:18 PM »
Quote from: moorepower on July 28, 2010, 03:49:16 PM
Have you tried them with out the factory crimp die? All the bullet makers will tell you it is damaging the jacket if there is no canalure to crimp in. I know there are guys that swear by them, but on a single shot there is no need for a crimp. Either way it looks like you are pointed in the right direction. What are you using for powder and primer?

I have.  With my short throated .45-70, I have to seat several style jacketed bullets slightly deeper than the cannelure.  I had issues with the bullet seating die crimp holding, so I got the Factory Crimp Die and have had zero issues since.  My best group with iron sights at 100 yards was 3/4" group and this was with bullets crimped above the cannelure.  I simply move the crimp die only 1/8" rotation at a time until the bullet is secure enough that I cannot twist the tip with a gripper cloth that is made for opening jars.  The crimp is barely even discernable unless you are looking for it.  I don't think it's a good idea to crimp hard enough to actually point the case mouth in and I haven't had any issues with my way.  Once you get visible case mouth crimping on the non-cannelure area, you are deforming and probably causing issues with accuracy.  Per the Lee guide, this will also shorten the life of the crimp die if you do it that hard.  Good luck to you.

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Tacklebury --}>>>>>    Multi-Barrel: .223 Superlite, 7mm-08 22", .30-40 Krag M158, .357 Maximum 16-1/4 HB, .45 Colt, .45-70 22" irons, 32" .45-70 Peeps, 12 Ga. 3-1/2 w/ Chokes, .410 Smooth slugger, .45 Cal Muzzy, .50 Cal Muzzy, .58 Cal Muzzy

also classics: M903 9-shot Target .22 Revolver, 1926 .410 Single, 1915 38 S&W Break top Revolver and 7-shot H&R Trapper .22 6" bbl.

Offline moorepower

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Re: 223 @ da range
« Reply #8 on: July 29, 2010, 05:28:02 AM »
I would bet the .223 bullet has a much thinner jacket, and he could see where they were crimped. I know some people swear by them, and I may try one on my hornet, just because so many people like them, but I would much rather put a smaller bushing in my die or adjust the Lee collet die for more psi first. There are other ways to get more neck tension.
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Offline tacklebury

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Re: 223 @ da range
« Reply #9 on: July 29, 2010, 03:49:55 PM »
Quote from: moorepower on July 29, 2010, 05:28:02 AM
I would bet the .223 bullet has a much thinner jacket, and he could see where they were crimped. I know some people swear by them, and I may try one on my hornet, just because so many people like them, but I would much rather put a smaller bushing in my die or adjust the Lee collet die for more psi first. There are other ways to get more neck tension.

I also use them on cast bullets.  The Dardas 350 gr. RNFP leads I load are too long in COL and land in the rifling if I crimp at the groove.  If I don't load them in Hornady brass I use the FCD on the leads also, which I know are softer than your jackets.  I'd say to just get one.  If you go through the LEE factory sales sight instead of the regular Lee website they are on sale for like $9.98 right now plus shipping.

http://factorysales.com/html/xcart/FACT-CRIMP-DIE-22-HORNET.html
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Tacklebury --}>>>>>    Multi-Barrel: .223 Superlite, 7mm-08 22", .30-40 Krag M158, .357 Maximum 16-1/4 HB, .45 Colt, .45-70 22" irons, 32" .45-70 Peeps, 12 Ga. 3-1/2 w/ Chokes, .410 Smooth slugger, .45 Cal Muzzy, .50 Cal Muzzy, .58 Cal Muzzy

also classics: M903 9-shot Target .22 Revolver, 1926 .410 Single, 1915 38 S&W Break top Revolver and 7-shot H&R Trapper .22 6" bbl.

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