Author Topic: 130 yeqr old tradition (Read 853 times)

Oldtimer · « **on:** November 22, 2003, 09:50:19 AM »

I did not expect today to be much use for deer hunting, because here in southern Virginia the temperatures were forecast to be in the 70's. Around 1100 I was in the shade pulling off clothes, when a doe passed me, then a buck trailing her. The model 92 did the trick. The old 44-40 Winchester is still killing deer after 130 years. :-D

86er · « **Reply #1 on:** November 23, 2003, 05:19:44 AM »

Excellent! I've taken several local blacktail bucks and a nice mulie with the 44 WCF over the years. At 100 yds or less, it kills cleanly. For "long range" hunting I prefer the 40-82 and 45-90, though.

w30wcf · « **Reply #2 on:** November 23, 2003, 03:02:25 PM »

Oldtimer,
NEAT! Thank you for sharing. Might I ask, What load were you using?

Back in 1875 Winchester shared some testimonials from users of their '73 Winchester in .44 W.C.F. in their catalog.........

..."I have fully tested the late improved Winchester Rifle and take pleasure in stating that it is the best rifle I have ever used. I have killed a number of deer, at distances from one to two hundred yards and in every instance, the bullet passed clean through the body."

..."I killed at a full gallop, at about 100 yards distant, a very large buckwith a splendid set of antlers with the first shot. The bullet struck him in the shoulder, as he ran toward me, and after traversing the entire length of his body, tearing the lights and paunch into atoms in its course, it passed out behind through the thickest part of the ham."

..."The killing qualities, at large game, is all that could be desired, to the wonder and admiration of the guides and sportsmen who saw its working during my visit to the Adirondack woods last fall."

..."I can say for one, that I think the Winchester Model of 1873 is the best firearm now in use for hunting and sporting; they give the best satisfaction to every one that has used them here. James Gary and C.S. Martin have killed 17 bears and 100 deer since the first of September with Model 1873.

..."For a sporting rifle, I think the Winchester Rifle is excelled by none. I have killed antelope, deer, and elk, with my gun, at from 200 to 400 yards. I would not exchange it for any other rifle."

w30wcf

86er · « **Reply #3 on:** November 23, 2003, 03:23:01 PM »

I don't know about those "testimonials", Jack. They must've been shooting the SUPER 44-40. LOL.
I can't even see a deer at 400 yds, let alone shoot at 'em. At least not with my 44WCF. Heck, I'm too conservative to try a 45-90 at 250 yds. Sure do love readin' 'em, though. Sorta makes 'ya want to take the 44-40 moose huntin, don't it?!

Oldtimer · « **Reply #4 on:** November 24, 2003, 03:26:11 PM »

My load was built in a Winchester case, using a Remington 200 grain softpoint and an amount of 4227 that used to be considered safe in the Lyman, 47th edition, but that is now said to be too hot. A WLP primer set it off. It is easy on the shoulder and I did not recover the bullet. It made a mess of the lungs and the deer ran about 30 yards, which is the same as I have had happen with a .264 Magnum. I am not suggesting that the .44-40 is the equal of the .264, but it was equal to the task at hand. What more can you ask? :grin:

w30wcf · « **Reply #5 on:** November 24, 2003, 03:43:31 PM »

86er,

I agree that the last testimonial might be stretching the truth a bit! Could it be done? No doubt, but it would probably take several shots to get the range and finish the job. The bullets would still penetrate well at that distance..... something to be said about slow moving heavy bullets.

Here's the result of a deer hunt with a .44-40 and a .44 Magnum posted by Doc Toombs on the SASS Wire - January 11, 2002

I took 2 deer this year with a 73 short rifle clone in .44 W.C.F. My hunting partner took 3 deer with a Marlin in 44 magnum. We both using hand loaded cast bullets, mine weighed 200 grains, his 240 grain. His came out of the barrel at over 1,700 f.p.s., mine came out the barrel at 1,290. All deer were shot at under 100 yards.

The results:
- all deer dropped within 50 yards
- no bullets were recovered (complete broadside penetration)

There was NO difference on effectiveness between the two calibers. Of course I still believe the Magnum is a superior deer cartridge. Probably the result of too many years of reading gun magazines.

But the reward of using a 73 in 44wcf with original velocity cartridges is immeasurable.

Right you are, Doc. Thank you for sharing!
w30wcf

w30wcf · « **Reply #6 on:** November 24, 2003, 03:58:08 PM »

Oldtimer,
Thank you for that additional information. That load in the Lyman 47th edition is less than 20,000 p.s.i. and too hot for a '73 but not for a '92.

Winchester's W.H.V. .44 W.C.F. load debutted in 1903 and was especially designed for the '92 Winchester. Velocity was 1,570 and pressure about 22,000 p.s.i.

The 4227 loads listed in earlier Lyman Manuals which called for 40%(!) more powder than the Lyman 47th were definitely a bit much!

As you said, "What more can you ask?" That says it all.

Thank you again for sharing.
w30wcf

WD45 · « **Reply #7 on:** November 26, 2003, 03:32:53 AM »

I think Winchester only published the ones that were extra ordinay examples.... From most of the reading I have done it seems most were not that impressed with its power and some even stated they would rather have one shot that will kill something than 7 shots that just make it mad :shock: I have read more than one account of people that would have been killed by a bear that had been shot several times with a 44 WCF if not for someone with them that had something more powerful in a sharps or rolling block. Deer yup.... maybe even mule deer or Elk if you had a close broadside shot. Something that could eat you or run over you like a Buss .......
For some reason it sure does add a little more satisfaction taking that deer ( or whatever critter ) with a cartridge and gun type that has been around that long

williamlayton · « **Reply #8 on:** November 26, 2003, 09:08:48 AM »

just a thought here and a question--what caliber was it that tom horn was to have shot the kid he was hung for? was it a 44-70?
blessings

John Traveler · « **Reply #9 on:** November 26, 2003, 10:10:54 AM »

His file was the Winchester 1876 "Centenial Model" in .45-60 caliber. That cartridge fired the 300 grain bullet at about 1300 fps... sorta like a shorter .45-70 military cartridge.

HTH
John

williamlayton · « **Reply #10 on:** November 26, 2003, 04:05:39 PM »

thanx-i was wrong in my thinking. i remember it said he would have had to lob the shell from the range he shot the boy from.
blessings

marlinman93 · « **Reply #11 on:** November 30, 2003, 03:57:13 PM »

A couple of years ago I took a doe with my 1889 Marlin, chambered in .38-40, (the little brother to your .44-40) The only shot I had was with the deer looking straight at me, and so I put my sights right on her chest. When I touched off the old gal, the doe was knocked backwards, and landed upside down in a heap!
When we gutted the deer, the bullet had entered between the front shoulders, and took out the heart and one lung. The other lung was traumatised, and the slug stopped in one hind quarter. The shot was a bit over 100 yds, and we were pretty impressed with the old cartridge's penetrating, and knockdown power.
The little .38-40 is only slightly smaller than the .44-40, due to it's .40 caliber 200 grain slug, and it sure does the trick.