berger or combined technology?

[simplicity]

OK first off I didn't know where to throw this question out. I've been playing with a remington VTR in 308win (cabelas version 24" with no break) and I have only found one load that shoots extremely well which is a hornady 168gr. hpbt match on top of 42 grains of IMR 4895. I've tryed using the same charge with some different 165gr. bullets without much luck (ballistic tip, horn spbt, horn sp) though I have not tryed the accubonds they shoot great in my 338. So in my way of thinking  the rifle just prefers 168gr over 165gr. but the only two hunting bullets I can find in 168gr. are the combined technology silvertip and the berger vld. They are pretty much the same price but the berger really looks like a match bullet which makes me wonder what it's performance on game will be like. Has anyone used either of these two bullets on game?  I know putting any bullet in the right place will work. Plus from what everyone has told me so far match bullets don't perform well on game. Any info would be great or if there are other 168gr hunting bullets out there by all means let me know, Thanks

[FN in MT]

  For many years I suffered from OVER THINKING my hunting rigs. They had to shoot the smallest groups with the most expensive bullets...or I was not happy. So I think I'm qualified to chime in here.

  What size groups are you getting?  WHAT are you hunting and what are the expected ranges?

  Have you measured how far off the lands the 168 gr HPBT Match slugs are?  Then loaded the 165's to that distance?   Tried standard old cup and core Hornady's or Sierras?


FN in MT
 

[simplicity]

I'm not sure how far off the lands the 168's are but they measure in at 2.810 LOA I can't go out any further due to magasine length.  I've even been trying to shorten them up to let the bullet jump, since I've had rifles that shot better if they had to jump to the lands (7mm rum mayjor jump cartridge).  I plan on using it on deer since the match bullets would work fine for yotes and woodchucks, and as far as the range I plan on hunting well I can shoot out to 800 is I want but I don't think the 308 is really a good choice for that normall I shoot my 338 win mag at that distance. Mainly wit hthe 308 I would only go out to 400-450. I normally practice on hitting soda bottles at 400 that said with the 168's I'm getting .250 groups center to center. With all the other loads are grouping right around 1.25 to 1.5 I have been trying the old style cup and core bullets in the 165 weight but still no success. Hence the reason why I'm asking about the berger and combined technology since they are the only two hunting bullets I can find in 168gr.

[FN in MT]

Thats quite a difference in group sizes! I see your dillemma.  Strange that it shoots the 168's  so well and the others...not so well. Then again...I have killed a lot of game with guns that seldom grouped better than 2" at 100 yds FROM A FIELD POSITION.

  But I agree that with a deers  smaller vitals area one likes all the accuracy you can get. I know I do if the ranges run 300-400 yds.

  I would check how far you are off the lands with the  slug  that shoots well...then load the other slugs you wish to try, at that same distance if possible. I would also try changing powders. Try something a bit slower as well as faster than the 4895. Reloader 15 and IMR3031 immediately come to mind.

  I'd try different primers too,  go to Win WLR, or RP's, Federals, etc.

  I would also clean the barrel very well, before trying any loads. Fire 2 or 3 fouling shots too.

  Nosler Accubonds and the Ballistic Tips  seem to tend to be accurate. the BT is far more frangible, but on deer you should be OK.  I would also try a 180 gr slug too. You may be shooting those 168's better as they are LONGER and match your bbl twist rate better.

  I would surely not get hung up on 165 gr versus 168 grain. Your shooting the 168 slugs well because they are a high quality Match slug, and apparently that load is  a good combination in your barrel. Now to duplicate that load with a hunting bullet.

  This is an interesting situation.

FN in MT

 

[nomosendero]

OK first off I didn't know where to throw this question out. I've been playing with a remington VTR in 308win (cabelas version 24" with no break) and I have only found one load that shoots extremely well which is a hornady 168gr. hpbt match on top of 42 grains of IMR 4895. I've tryed using the same charge with some different 165gr. bullets without much luck (ballistic tip, horn spbt, horn sp) though I have not tryed the accubonds they shoot great in my 338. So in my way of thinking  the rifle just prefers 168gr over 165gr. but the only two hunting bullets I can find in 168gr. are the combined technology silvertip and the berger vld. They are pretty much the same price but the berger really looks like a match bullet which makes me wonder what it's performance on game will be like. Has anyone used either of these two bullets on game?  I know putting any bullet in the right place will work. Plus from what everyone has told me so far match bullets don't perform well on game. Any info would be great or if there are other 168gr hunting bullets out there by all means let me know, Thanks

BTW, Nosler now sells a 168gr. Bal. Tip, along with the coated CT version. Berger has 2 lines of Match bullets in these weights. One is a pure match & the other is a Hunting/Match VLD. The hunting VLD if packaged in recent times will be in an orange box. Esp. for Mule Deer & down & Esp. in modest vel. rounds or at long range with Magnum rounds these bullets are really effective. Alot of folks use them for Elk, but I personally would rather use a little tougher bullet for Elk & above. To me, I feel the Bal Tip/CT is pretty much in the same catagory & at 168gr. they are deadly for Deer. go to www.bergerbullets.com  for more info.

I loaded some of the 168 Bergers last year for a 300WM. That rifle took 1 Mule Deer & 1 Whitetail, neither at long range. The expansion was quite dramatic, but penetration was still more than adaquate.

[Mac11700]

OK first off I didn't know where to throw this question out. I've been playing with a remington VTR in 308win (cabelas version 24" with no break) and I have only found one load that shoots extremely well which is a hornady 168gr. hpbt match on top of 42 grains of IMR 4895. I've tryed using the same charge with some different 165gr. bullets without much luck (ballistic tip, horn spbt, horn sp) though I have not tryed the accubonds they shoot great in my 338. So in my way of thinking  the rifle just prefers 168gr over 165gr. but the only two hunting bullets I can find in 168gr. are the combined technology silvertip and the berger vld. They are pretty much the same price but the berger really looks like a match bullet which makes me wonder what it's performance on game will be like. Has anyone used either of these two bullets on game?  I know putting any bullet in the right place will work. Plus from what everyone has told me so far match bullets don't perform well on game. Any info would be great or if there are other 168gr hunting bullets out there by all means let me know, Thanks

Well...there ya go..If you have some Accubonds load them up and give them a shot  Go on and load them to the recommended length then work your way out from their. I've found them to be deadly accurate in anything I have ever shot them out of..+1 on trying different primers too..All of my 308's preferred Remington 9-1/2 primers.

Mac

Mac

[nomosendero]

Yes, ditto on trying the Accubonds. Concerning the 165 vs 168 in accuracy, I think it is likely a matter of the individual bullet than the 3 gr. diff. in wt. I loaded alot for a M700VS that I resently sold. It loved the
168A-Max, hated the 168BT & loved the 165 Fushion fact & a couple of other 165's & a 150. It was a matter of bullet preference, the rifle has the same twist as a VTR.

[simplicity]

Thanks for the input everyone, I just picked up some berger 168 hunting. Also some IMR 4064 to try as well. Though checking the bedding of the action in the stock two things I found out about my stock that kinda has worked into my mind that the stock might be part of the problem. first off the barrel is not free floating at the end of the forestock there is two tabs from the stock going up to the barrel pressing on it. and the other (why they designed it like this I don't know) the VTR stock unlike the SPS stock has rubber panels in it and where they injected the rubber through to the out side there is nother but just the side walls of the stock where the rest of the stock is cross braced and I can easily twist the stock by hand and it all twists right on that area.  So now I need to decide which stock to go after. I want sometihng with a full bed. ONce again thanks for the replys.