Author Topic: Lee factory crimp die and cast bullets (Read 1277 times)

KansasPaul · « **on:** August 25, 2010, 03:52:56 PM »

I'm planning to load 45 acp 230 grain cast bullets using a Lee die set. The set includes Lee's factory crimp die. Does anyone have any experience with the Lee crimp die and cast bullets? I'm a bit concerned that the crimp die may cut into the cast bullet enough to effect the seal of the bullet in the barrel. The bullets are Missouri Bullet and have a brinell rate of 18. I'll be shooting them over W231.

I appreciate any input.

Paul

nicholst55 · « **Reply #1 on:** August 25, 2010, 04:47:52 PM »

Are you shooting these in an auto pistol, or in a revolver (like a convertible Blackhawk)? IMHO, there is no need for a Lee FCD for the .45 ACP cartridge (or most others, either), if your taper crimp (seating) die is properly adjusted. The carbide ring in the FCD can easily 'size' the already seated bullet down to a smaller diameter, resulting in gas-cutting and bore leading - and poor accuracy.

I've been loading .45 ACP since 1976, never used a LEE FCD, and never had a problem. Adjust your taper crimp die so that your loaded ammo mikes .472-.473" at the case mouth, and you shouldn't have any problems with your ammo.

trotterlg · « **Reply #2 on:** August 25, 2010, 05:34:57 PM »

The lee factory crimp die can easily crimp the case so there is nothing for the round to seat on, the case mouth can be crimped flush with the bullet if you want to do it. I really don't think I would use a lee factory crimp die on any case that seats on the case mouth. Larry

tacklebury · « **Reply #3 on:** August 25, 2010, 05:57:21 PM »

Quote from: trotterlg on August 25, 2010, 05:34:57 PM

The lee factory crimp die can easily crimp the case so there is nothing for the round to seat on, the case mouth can be crimped flush with the bullet if you want to do it. I really don't think I would use a lee factory crimp die on any case that seats on the case mouth. Larry

Sorry to disagree in this case Larry. The lee factory crimp for .45 acp is only a taper crimp. Unlike many of the rifle or rimmed calibers, most or all of the rimless caliber factory crimp dies are basically an iron that smooths your case. I use it extensively for .45 acp and set one up for my buddy loading .40 S&W and 9mm. Check out this link. If you scroll down to the pistol section, it states taper next to the .45 ACP line.
http://www.factorysales.com/html/xcart/catalog/dies-p3.html

In all actuality, I had a terrible time getting my handloads to seat completely to the shoulder in my tight cylinder'd NMB Convertible's .45 ACP cylinder. This cured it and also helps me produce basically zero jamming rounds for a Kimber .45 I shoot at a friends. His would not swallow any reloads until we used this.

mdi · « **Reply #4 on:** August 27, 2010, 06:53:45 AM »

I purchased a Lee Factory Crimp Die for my .44 Magnums shooting cast bullets. The crimp function worked fine (but I prefer a heavy roll crimp on my magnums) but the deciding factor to toss it was it sized down the case/bullet too small for one of me .44s (.433" swaged down to .430", too small for me). I have one .44 that the barrel slugs at .432" and one .431", and 2 at .429"-.430". For your .45 ACP I would think you would need to know the bore diameter, and the bullet diameter post FCD.

But, a few billion .45 ACPs were reloaded and shot prior to the Lee Factory Crimp Die debut, and I reload .45 ACP without one, so maybe it isn't necessary...

spinafish · « **Reply #5 on:** August 27, 2010, 09:50:30 AM »

I use a Lee Factory Crimp Die for every pistol and revolver round that I load...and many rifle cartridges also.

shot1 · « **Reply #6 on:** August 27, 2010, 01:53:19 PM »

The term FACTORY CRIMP in the Lee factory crimp die means just that. It puts the same crimp that a factory round has on it in the pistol calibers. I have used it on the 45 ACP and the 9mm Luger with perfect success. I have also learned that the Lee Factory Crimp Die for rifles does add accuracy to some loads in certain rifles. Especially those with long throats like many of the old military rifles.

tacklebury · « **Reply #7 on:** August 27, 2010, 01:54:38 PM »

Quote

But, a few billion .45 ACPs were reloaded and shot prior to the Lee Factory Crimp Die debut, and I reload .45 ACP without one, so maybe it isn't necessary...

Necessary it isn't, but it is a nice, foolproof in my experience, way to make sure little bulges don't jam up your gun while at the range or when you really need it. I know in my blackhawk's acp cylinder, tolerance is sooo tight, even a slight bulge doesn't let it slide to the end of the chamber, and if the rim sticks out even 4 thousandths or so, it drags on the cylinder face. Out of my first 50 I loaded without it, only 10 could be loaded before I got one that wedged itself in so tight, I had to wait till I got home with some tools to be able to get it out. With a larger chambered gun, it might not be so critical.

kynardsj · « **Reply #8 on:** August 27, 2010, 02:02:56 PM »

I use one on my 38's, 357's, 45 LC's and 454 Casulls. Adjusted properly, like any die, it works great for me.

saddlebum · « **Reply #9 on:** August 27, 2010, 02:54:31 PM »

Here's another discussion on the FC dies. I see no reason to use the handgun dies at all. IMO

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,205529.0.html

tacklebury · « **Reply #10 on:** August 27, 2010, 04:39:41 PM »

Well, I can state for certain, that it helps with mine and about 4 other reloader's I know who were having issues with feeding/seating. I cannot say it creates a more accurate round, although my groups are pretty tight since using it in .45 ACP. It has never crushed a case, because it doesn't squeeze the case. It slides over the case like an iron and makes them chamber in my tight cylindered revolver. The straight walled case dies, such as my .45 colt work great also. They can deform a bullet if set too deep, but thus far, my lead rounds are my most accurate in .45 Colt by a slight margin. Just don't set it too deep on the crimp. In that post, he seems to think all the pistol dies are the same, so there may be a mis-understanding there, however. The crimp isn't just to hold a loose bullet, it's to keep them from backing out under recoil. If you shoot a revolver with hot loads, a firm crimp is desirable. Anyway, I'll keep using mine and getting good consistent chambering for now.

Bearcat 74 · « **Reply #11 on:** August 28, 2010, 02:41:29 AM »

For anyone having trouble with the Lee FCD sizing down cast rounds just take the adjuster from the top and the crimp ring out of the die. Place the die body in a vise and get a 10mm nut driver and a hammer and drive out the carbide ring at the bottom of the die. It sized my 432" cast down to .429", removed the ring and no sizing and great accuracy.

gypsyman · « **Reply #12 on:** August 28, 2010, 05:02:43 AM »

KansasPaul, if the Lee FC die is just what shot1 says it is, a taper crimp die, just adjust it like you would any other taper crimp die. You have to understand that alot of company's put a special name on their product, but it's no different than what other company's do. Lets call it new and improved,updated, blah,blah,blah, it's the same old thing in a new package or name. Adjust it properly, and it'll work just fine. Since your loading .45acp, my cast bullets are sized .452, and the loaded round is .473, or just a hair over, after crimping, thats at the neck, as it's fattens up some towards the base. gypsyman

kynardsj · « **Reply #13 on:** August 28, 2010, 05:14:12 AM »

I use one because I load different length/weight bullets for different applications in each caliber. It's easy to adjust the seating die to seat the bullet at a proper depth then use a FC die that's set at the same place to lock it in. When I change bullets in a caliber I back the seating die off and work my way back down to the proper depth. Doing this without it crimping makes my life easier.

saddlebum · « **Reply #14 on:** August 28, 2010, 06:22:31 AM »

Quote from: Bearcat 74 on August 28, 2010, 02:41:29 AM

For anyone having trouble with the Lee FCD sizing down cast rounds just take the adjuster from the top and the crimp ring out of the die. Place the die body in a vise and get a 10mm nut driver and a hammer and drive out the carbide ring at the bottom of the die. It sized my 432" cast down to .429", removed the ring and no sizing and great accuracy.

Why not just buy a quality die set to begin with and not hassle with modifying the promotional gimmick POC in the first place. If it makes someone feel better using that junk and taking extra steps in the reloading process, well good for them. If a person can't get it together to adjust a standard crimp die so it doesn't bulge, then how does it help to use a FC die. I'm sure it's just as easy to screw up with that die as it is a standard die. If someone is saying they use the FC die cause they can't make a standard die work, they are just saying they can't do what millions of reloaders have been doing for a hundred years. Funny how that all Lee had to do is call them "factory crimp" dies and people just eat em up. It reminds me of the Taurus Judge. Same deal. Throw the right sales pitch out there and some people will buy a turd.

AM I MAKIN ANY FRIENDS TODAY??!!!

tacklebury · « **Reply #15 on:** August 28, 2010, 08:43:31 AM »

I just think personal opinion is becoming rudness in this case.

I know literally hundreds of folks who like Lee dies and components and personally have no issue that they cost less that 1/2 the price usually. I personally have a pretty tight reloading budget, so I don't really desire to spend more when un-necessary. I also shoot sub moa with several guns and that's not possible with "junk" dies.

Have a nice day anyway.

saddlebum · « **Reply #16 on:** August 28, 2010, 09:07:29 AM »

~~WAA ! WAA !~~

Not sure that was very nice or called for --- stimpy

I didn't say anything about the cost of Lee stuff. You brought it up! Which is the main reason people buy Lee. I don't have a problem with that. But you or Lee can not sell me on FC dies for handgun cartridges. I too get good groups, if I do my part, and I did it without using a crimp die that has a sizer ring in it. If it ain't broke, I don't try to fix it. If there is a potential for problems with a FC die, why mess with it? I can load any kind of bullets in my handgun cases, with standard dies, without any problems.

May you too have a nice day!!

mdi · « **Reply #17 on:** August 28, 2010, 09:53:32 AM »

Quote from: tacklebury on August 27, 2010, 01:54:38 PM

Quote
But, a few billion .45 ACPs were reloaded and shot prior to the Lee Factory Crimp Die debut, and I reload .45 ACP without one, so maybe it isn't necessary...

Necessary it isn't, but it is a nice, foolproof in my experience, way to make sure little bulges don't jam up your gun while at the range or when you really need it. I know in my blackhawk's acp cylinder, tolerance is sooo tight, even a slight bulge doesn't let it slide to the end of the chamber, and if the rim sticks out even 4 thousandths or so, it drags on the cylinder face. Out of my first 50 I loaded without it, only 10 could be loaded before I got one that wedged itself in so tight, I had to wait till I got home with some tools to be able to get it out. With a larger chambered gun, it might not be so critical.

When I load 45 ACP I inspect the loaded rounds for chamber fit, mebby 1 out of 6 or 8. I am sure about my ammo being of proper size and consistancy (one of my 45s has a "tight" chamber and I have NO probs or FTF with my reloads). So, I don't need any additional sizing die for feeding problems. It is of no convience to me, just an added step.

In my .44 Magnums, the FCD sizes the entire case and BULLET down so I have undersized lead bullets and resulting leading.

I have Lee dies, Pacific dies, RCBS dies, Herter's dies, and for my 45 ACP loading I have Lee, Pacific, and RCBS dies all on the same turret. I think they all have their good and bad aspects. I get ammo that is more accurarte than me...

stimpylu32 · « **Reply #18 on:** August 29, 2010, 06:42:54 AM »

We're all adults here - lets try to act like it .

Not everyone is a Lee fan , however not all are Redding or RCBS fans either , so what works for one may not work for all .

Thats what makes this such a wonderful hobby .

stimpylu32

saddlebum · « **Reply #19 on:** August 29, 2010, 08:38:53 AM »

The truth hurts.....don't it?

I didn't make a coment about Lee as a whole. Just the FC handgun dies. I think mine is a common sense opinion. (re-read the posts)

Why is it that people that use Lee products get so defensive and thin-skinned about it when someone disagrees with them about a Lee product. I don't have anything against Lee except the FC handgun dies. (again, read the post) It's my opinion based on facts about the use of a sizer ring on a crimp die and taking an extra step in the process. But people have to get all whiney and talk about the value of using Lee products and I'm a bad guy for stating the facts. Maybe some insecurity issues? I didn't knock anyone for using Lee products as a whole. Just my opinion on one crimp die, which is the same as other folks too. If you choose to take it personally, That's not my problem. It's yours.

Reloading is not a team sport. I don't have a side. I don't choose by the color of the product. I have used stuff from 4 different companies including Lee. But common sense tells me that the FC handgun dies aren't worth a hoot. If you disagree well, I guess you will have to try to live with it. Hopefully without crying yourself to sleep tonight. If you choose to be offended, I'm sorry for you......Acting like adults goes both ways!

Signing off now, have a nice day!!