Author Topic: Father-in-laws Mauser (Read 1987 times)

mattmillerrx · « **on:** February 02, 2010, 03:16:42 PM »

This is my father in laws Mauser. He bought it over 30 years ago and shot it with a little over a half a box of 7mm Mauser ammo. He still had the other part of the box and wanted to shoot it so I took him to the range. It would not fire only partially dinting the primer. I told him I would fix it. After inspection I thought the bore looked to big to be a 7mm and thought it might have been re-chamber to 30-06. To big for 06, must be 8mm Mauser. Ask my father in law for the box of ammo and sure enough the cases were swollen up with an inside diameter of 8 mm. This is a Danzig 1903, and prior to 1905 8 mm was .318 and this bore is .318. I advised him not to fire the gun, as I did not think it would be safe with modern ammo being .323. Now he wants to know as much about this gun as possible. Parts on this gun are all matching numbers, it is missing two screws on the floor plate/trigger guard assembly. My other concerns is that I have not seen another one with the barrel flush with the stock like this one. Has it been cut down? Also please include an estimated value of this rifle as he wanted to know this as well.

Thanks for your help,
MGM

mattmillerrx · « **Reply #1 on:** February 02, 2010, 03:17:30 PM »

forgot one picture

mauser98us · « **Reply #2 on:** February 02, 2010, 04:01:34 PM »

Don't harass this model. It may be an Engineer's or Artillery carbine. I need to do some reasearch,but it looks factory done. Maybe an arsenal rework. I notice in your picture,The endpiece indexes with the lock inlet in the side of the stock.Does not appear bubba did the work.

mattmillerrx · « **Reply #3 on:** February 02, 2010, 04:50:42 PM »

That was my thought as well on the end piece, just can't find anything like it. The barrel is also narrower where the front sight is but is thick again immediately behind it. There is no way Bubba did that. I thought it might have been damaged at the end and cut down. Had not considered the special purpose carbines, but that is why I am asking cause Mausers are not my area. Thanks in advance for any info you can find.

shot1 · « **Reply #4 on:** February 03, 2010, 01:25:09 AM »

Norma makes ammo for this rifle. It is called 8X57mmJ and has a .318 diameter bullet. The 8X57mmJS is loaded with .323 diameter bullets. I would slug this bore if you have not. Many of the old Mausers that had the .318 bore were rebarreled with .323 barrels.
I myself have never seen a rifle with the muzzle end like that. It looks to be a well done chop job.

Merle · « **Reply #5 on:** February 03, 2010, 01:07:30 PM »

Have you actually slugged the bore? Many of the early Mausers were re-barrelled to .323 bores.

mattmillerrx · « **Reply #6 on:** February 03, 2010, 03:16:23 PM »

yeah, its a real .318

1911crazy · « **Reply #7 on:** February 03, 2010, 04:02:54 PM »

I believe its a cut down because of the long rear site ladder. The shorter carbines didn't have a long site ladder. I'm not sure what the front view is on the muzzle to see how its done too. Right now from the side view it looks like a cut down. But i'll check my world book of military mausers to see. We can also checkout the carbines for collectors site too. I have never seen a rifle like this at all in my readings so it may not be orginal. It wasn't done by a bubba but some gun shops like Ye Old Gun Shop in La. Ca did this kind of excellent work in the 60's. I have a piece of there work and its excellent gunsmithing.
Bill

454Puma · « **Reply #8 on:** February 03, 2010, 04:59:06 PM »

Go to the site below- there are many Muaser expert/collectors over there and they'd love to help you out!
If it is truely all matching GEW98 that rifle is worth allot of money. PS your going to need to post many detailed pics -basically any where you see a S/N , top of reciever, bolt,barrel makings etc. I'm a member over there and will be looking for your post. I'm no expert but of GEW98 pics I've seen that is an original stock config.

http://forums.gunboards.com/index.php

1911crazy · « **Reply #9 on:** February 04, 2010, 03:59:05 AM »

That muzzle end doesn't look like any of the mauser carbine pics that i seen in the world book of military mausers. I wish we had a pic of the muzzle from the front??? I'll bet there are two small screws holding the front plate on under the barrel on the muzzle.

I'll see you over on gunboards i'm there too for many years.

Note; Most of the 8mm carbines have the front muzzle piece like the swede m94 has with the sight protectors.

shot1 · « **Reply #10 on:** February 04, 2010, 02:26:00 PM »

Mrele: I guess from your post "

" that you are confused by the " have you slugged the bore?".
To find out what diameter bullet to use in a questionable bore diameter you take a lead muzzle loader ball or egg fishing sinker a little larger than the bore in question and lube it a little and drive it from the chamber end through the bore using dowel rods and a hammer. When it comes out the muzzle you measure the from high spot to high spot which is the groove diameter to come up with what the actual bore diameter is. This diameter will determine what size bullet you should use.

Mattmillerrx: If you hand load Woodleigh Bullets makes a .318 diameter 200 gr jacketed soft point bullet. Midway has them. Product number 530-161 They are a bit pricey at $33.99 for 50 but these are the only .318 jacketed bullets I have ever seen for hand loading.

About 29 years ago my friend that has a gun shop bought a commercial German made sporting Mauser 98 action rifle from a fellow that came into his store for $100.00. Actually he was allowed that much on a trade for a new Rem 700 30-06. It had a double set trigger with two folding back sights, one for 100 meters and the other for 200 meters. It had an ivory bead front sight post. It was chambered for the 8X57J round with the .318 bore. The guy said that his father had brought it back from WWII. He was wanting a deer hunting rifle that he could afford ammo for. Norma was the only maker of ammo for this and at the time it cost about 5 times what a box of American 30-06 did. The guy did not know what he had. My buddy bought a box of ammo just to see how the gun would shoot. I got to shoot it and it was a real shooter. Later on that year my buddy sold that rifle for $1500.00 to a collector and he was tickled to get it for that kind of money.

mattmillerrx · « **Reply #11 on:** February 04, 2010, 03:08:47 PM »

Some more pictures, the front piece is only held on by the take down lever (I am sure you guys will correct me on the name).

Shot1--Those fishing weights do work well for slugging when you don't have a ball handy.

I do handload, but probably won't take this on. He has not shot this gun but one time since he has owned it and that was about 30 years ago he said. I really think he would shoot it one more time and that would be it.

I new of the 8x57mmJ from one of my books, but have not seen it for sale and am guessing it to be a bit pricey--he was not to thrilled when I told him what cheap ammo cost for this gun (before I knew it was a .318).

1911crazy and 454puma--I will check out that website one of these days and get this posted over there. I added a few pictures that were requested and a couple of others that may help out.

I did also find another number--this one is on the bolt handle and it does not match. All others match.

Thanks for your help,
MGM

Merle · « **Reply #12 on:** February 04, 2010, 03:28:03 PM »

Quote from: shot1 on February 04, 2010, 02:26:00 PM

Mrele: I guess from your post " " that you are confused by the " have you slugged the bore?".
To find out what diameter bullet to use in a questionable bore diameter you take a lead muzzle loader ball or egg fishing sinker a little larger than the bore in question and lube it a little and drive it from the chamber end through the bore using dowel rods and a hammer. When it comes out the muzzle you measure the from high spot to high spot which is the groove diameter to come up with what the actual bore diameter is. This diameter will determine what size bullet you should use.

Nope, I'm not confused. I know how to slug a bore. Looks like I confused the issue, though.
I just wondered if it had been confirmed to be a .318 bore, as many people assume that all old Mausers are .318 vs .323 bore.
It's good to know that before you buy ammo or reloading components.

mattmillerrx · « **Reply #13 on:** February 21, 2010, 06:15:10 AM »

He decided he wanted some of the norma ammo. I checked around and have not been able to find it. I check the norma website and do not see it listed. Anyone know where to get any? Is it just a special run product for norma?

Mikey · « **Reply #14 on:** February 22, 2010, 01:14:20 AM »

I would check with a Sellier and Bellot dealer, or get up on their website. I believe I have seen the 8x57J S&B ammo advertised. You may also wish to check the PRVI site and see if they make any of the 8x57J. HTH.

blacksan · « **Reply #15 on:** February 22, 2010, 01:54:04 AM »

These folks used to offer it but I'd reload first if it where me.

http://www.superiorammo.com/

I was scrounging behind the counter at my local shop a few weeks ago and they had a dusty old set of new 8x57J dies for sale, I believe they where RCBS. If you want me to check on pricing I'll look in to it.

mattmillerrx · « **Reply #16 on:** February 22, 2010, 02:28:46 AM »

If it were mine I would reload. He only wants to shoot it. Considering the last time he fired it was 30 yrs ago and he only shot a half a box (of 7 mm mauser) of the wrong ammo. I think he can get one box and go to the range and be done with it. But if he starts wanting to shoot a bunch I will get him into reloading.

DanChamberlain · « **Reply #17 on:** February 28, 2010, 03:33:02 PM »

Matt

I love to shoot cast lead bullets from my Mauser. I use a gas check bullet of 170 grains and load it over 17 grains of 2400 for a muzzle velocity of 1650 fps. I get wonderful accuracy at 100 yards and it's an easy load. Getting a cast lead mold for your bore size should not be difficult and you can enjoy shooting it to your heart's content. Just a suggestion.

Dan

moconfed · « **Reply #18 on:** August 11, 2010, 03:21:18 PM »

These were imported into the US in the 60's, by an importer who 'sportered' them by bobbing the barrels, as well as on some, painting the metal gloss black.
Yours appears to be based upon an early Gew98 that didn't get modified to take the 323 diameter. If there is no 'S' on the barrel ahead of the receiver, then it still remains in 318, as you have discovered.
These usually run about $200, but I've seen one dealer locally drag one around practically begging to sell it at $150.
My advice- shoot it!!

mrussel · « **Reply #19 on:** August 11, 2010, 07:20:25 PM »

Quote from: shot1 on February 04, 2010, 02:26:00 PM

Mrele: I guess from your post " " that you are confused by the " have you slugged the bore?".
To find out what diameter bullet to use in a questionable bore diameter you take a lead muzzle loader ball or egg fishing sinker a little larger than the bore in question and lube it a little and drive it from the chamber end through the bore using dowel rods and a hammer. When it comes out the muzzle you measure the from high spot to high spot which is the groove diameter to come up with what the actual bore diameter is. This diameter will determine what size bullet you should use.

Mattmillerrx: If you hand load Woodleigh Bullets makes a .318 diameter 200 gr jacketed soft point bullet. Midway has them. Product number 530-161 They are a bit pricey at $33.99 for 50 but these are the only .318 jacketed bullets I have ever seen for hand loading.

About 29 years ago my friend that has a gun shop bought a commercial German made sporting Mauser 98 action rifle from a fellow that came into his store for $100.00. Actually he was allowed that much on a trade for a new Rem 700 30-06. It had a double set trigger with two folding back sights, one for 100 meters and the other for 200 meters. It had an ivory bead front sight post. It was chambered for the 8X57J round with the .318 bore. The guy said that his father had brought it back from WWII. He was wanting a deer hunting rifle that he could afford ammo for. Norma was the only maker of ammo for this and at the time it cost about 5 times what a box of American 30-06 did. The guy did not know what he had. My buddy bought a box of ammo just to see how the gun would shoot. I got to shoot it and it was a real shooter. Later on that year my buddy sold that rifle for $1500.00 to a collector and he was tickled to get it for that kind of money.

I use a piece of 00 buck for 7.62 barrels. Its .330 so it should work fine for 8mm as well. Just get a piece of unplated 00 lead buck shot ,a 1' section of 2x4 or 2x2 a 1/4" dowel and a 5/16" dowel. Cut a peice of the 5/16" dowel about 6" long. (the idea here is to NOT use any sort of metal rod or hammer) The 5/16" dowel will jam in the bore of a 7.62 if you push it in to far,but this should be less of a problem with an 8mm. Use the 6" section of dowel to start the piece of shot down the barrel,tapping lightly with the wood block. Then use the 1/4" dowel to drive it through,until it falls out of the breech end. It will now have the lands ingraved into it. Use a micrometer or a good set of calipers to measure across the groove diameter (this will be the raised parts on the shot) Thats the diameter of your bore. Like any rifle,if its in good shape,it should be fine to fire with the correct ammunition. If its .318,Im jealous,becuase Ive never seen one that had the old barrel on it. Get some of the right ammo and have fun. If your hand loading,you might be able to re-size .323 bullets with a sizing die. Ive heard people do that with .338 bullets for the 8x56R cartridge,which is really .329 (apparently Austria liked that diameter and called it 8mm. They even made pistols in it) Ive heard mixed results with the .338-329 resizing,but going from .323 to .318 should work better.