Problems With .223 Reloads?

[dovehunter]

I am having to trim my cases after virtually every firing in my Handi.  Is case stretching a problem in the Handis?  I am also having problems with lube dents on the shoulder and (more often) right below the shoulder after full length resizing.  I am using RCBS dies and the Lyman spray-on case lube.  I am very careful not to spray the case bodies excessively and try not to get any on the case necks or upper part of the cases at all.  I am wondering if I should try one of the LEE neck-sizing dies.  I know that would at least cure the lube dent problems.  Fired cases come out of my barrel very easily and I can not feel any difference between just fired cases and fully resized cases.  The case stretching issue bothers my the most.  Any thoughts?

 

[PawPaw]

Lube dents is a problem with too much lube.  If you're getting lube dents, back off on the lube you use.  Although, lube dents don't really make that much difference in case capacity.

However, case stretching is a totally different problem.  I'd re-adjust my die to just "kiss" the shoulder to make sure I'm not setting the shoulder back.  Or, if you're using those cases in one rifle only, I'd neck-size them.  Once the case is fired in a particular rifle, it's sized perfectly for that chamber. 

Lee makes a collet die that neck sizes and RCBS makes something called the X-die that is supposed to limit case stretching.  I've never used one, but I have heard good reports from other shooters.

[bikerbeans]

Hi,

I had this problem for a little while with my 223 Handi.  It was a frame fit/lock up problem (too much headspace).  Once I got a good lockup and latch engagement the problem went away.  What do your primers look like?  When my gun had this issue the primers were being flatten quite a bit even though I was shooting loads that were not close to Max.

BB

[Dinny]

I love my X-Dies! I would highly recommend them to anyone.

I have one for small-base sizing the .223. If you would like, I will send it to you to try. If you like it, send me the die you have, if not, just send mine back to me. Apparently I can't get it set just right as I continue to have FTF issues with my .223 Handi. Although it may not be the die at all, just me.

Thanks, Dinny

[NFG]

I quit using any kind of lube except Imperial wax about a hunerd years ago...just a little swipe across the wax with my finger, rub my thumb and first two fingers together, spin the case BASE, about 1/3, and the case neck in those fingers and stuff it in the resizer.

Set the resizer so it just touches the shoulder, that way you aren't constantly reintroducing excess headspace in long chambers.  You fit the case to the chamber when you fire it, THEN you fit the sizer to the case so it just pushes the shoulder back 0.001-0.002" so it will chamber easily.

This gets into a whole can of worms about press ram slop, sizing dies, shell holders etc.  Do some searching on this forum, go to 6mmBR, Sabier, Long Range and some of the Varmint forums...most of this information has been covered on one or more of those forums.

It take time to learn all the nuances.  Be patient, read up, crawl before you walk or run.

You will ALWAYS have to trim because squeezing down the case and pulling up the sizer button stretches the case.  Even bushing dies WITHOUT the size button have some stretch.  The case cycling through the sizing firing process causes the case to lengthen...no way to stop it.

The problem with the X-die is it is set to a specific length internally...if your chamber doesn't match then you have problems.  The idea is sound, but the application isn't always workable.

Luck

[gendoc]

i'm glad my .223's don't need no bottle feed'n....
no matter which brand gun i use.
if any of them did, they would have ta go !!!

and my dies wud get thrown away if they caused it.
thats why i use redding. they don't give ya any headaches.

when..... i lube, i use imperial media.

i keep my fired brass in order with its fired chamber.
and i don't hot-rod my loads.  got plenty other high horsepower .224's fer that.

thats just me, i guess  

 

[moorepower]

I have to wonder if you are not over sizing the brass. Take a clean once fired piece of brass and with the die a half turn out from the bottom, run the die down until it touches the shoulder. Then run the die down 1/16th of a turn and see if it chambers. If it does not tighten another turn. Part of the reason you don't have to trim as often with the x die is they tell you to trim the case short to begin with.

[dovehunter]

...What do your primers look like?  When my gun had this issue the primers were being flatten quite a bit even though I was shooting loads that were not close to Max...

Thanks, but I don't think this is the problem.  My primers look fine.

[mauser98us]

You may have excess lube in the top of your die. Pull the spindle and clean out with a rod and patch. You also maybe pulling the neck on your downstoke in your press. A little lube on a Q-Tip inside the neck does wonders.

[Doug B.]

You may have excess lube in the top of your die. Pull the spindle and clean out with a rod and patch. You also maybe pulling the neck on your downstoke in your press. A little lube on a Q-Tip inside the neck does wonders.

I had this problem with a set of Lyman small base dies in .270. Tried graphite at first and it worked o.k. Then tried q-tip with lube every third or fourth round and that worked better. My problem was cured.

[dovehunter]

...Then tried q-tip with lube every third or fourth round and that worked better. My problem was cured...

You must have read my mind.  I was thinking about trying that myself.

I wondered if possibly pulling the expander button back through an un-lubed case neck may be causing some of my problem.  The cases have not, however, been grating when the expander button is pulled back through the neck.  I think though that I will try this next.  If that doesn't cure my stretching problem I am going to get a LEE deluxe die set that has the collet die.  As I said earlier, if nothing else, that will certainly take care of the lube dents.

[revbc]

Dovehunter,

Sounds like your on the right track.  I use Unique lube by hornady.  Great lube, smells good, doesn't build up in my dies like imperial wax did.  I would be cautious using only a neck die in a break open.  It has been my experience that you need to set the shoulder back just a little so the rd will chamber correctly and the gun will lock up in the same place on the latch shelf.  If it doesn't, it wont shoot to the same point of aim.  The handis frame flexes a little when fired, so you always get a little stretch on the case, making the case a little to long from the shoulder to the case head to chamber right.  They just don't work like a bolt gun for me.

Just my 2 cents
Bobby

[gendoc]

hey bobby, your right about the wax 
thats why i use the imperial media... its good stuff and lasts a long time

[quickdtoo]

You can learn real quick if you need to full length resize, try chambering a fired case, if the action will lock up fully with no gap between the barrel and standing breech, you're good to go, but I doubt that will happen with mid to max loads. I get considerable case growth in the 6x45 with mid level loads and up, only brass with start and a little heavier loads can be rechambered without any problems.

Tim