Author Topic: 7.62X54R dies  (Read 2384 times)

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Offline patw

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7.62X54R dies
« on: July 27, 2010, 01:38:21 PM »
Any recommendations for dies for the 7.62X54R?  Preferences  between Lee, Lyman or RCBS?  I will probably be loading mostly cast bullets.

Offline dieselman

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Re: 7.62X54R dies
« Reply #1 on: July 27, 2010, 05:43:32 PM »
I got a new set of lee dies from a gun show that came with bot the .308 expander and .310, I like the lee dies myself with the fac crimp die and shell holder all in one package for one great price.

Offline Dang

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Re: 7.62X54R dies
« Reply #2 on: July 27, 2010, 06:10:15 PM »
+1 For the Lee dies. I have been using a set for the 7.62x54 loading cast bullets (made from a Lee mold) and have had no problems.
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Offline torpedoman

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Re: 7.62X54R dies
« Reply #3 on: July 27, 2010, 06:35:02 PM »
my lees work just fine the object is to save money why spend more than necessary on a tool?
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Offline mrussel

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Re: 7.62X54R dies
« Reply #4 on: July 27, 2010, 07:05:44 PM »
Any recommendations for dies for the 7.62X54R?  Preferences  between Lee, Lyman or RCBS?  I will probably be loading mostly cast bullets.

 Lee dies are dirt cheap and very good. I would go for those. While I have yet to find any Lee equipment that is unusable,if you buy something from them,and dont like it,you have not wasted much money. That was my thought when I bought all my reloading gear. I spoke to some people who loved the Lee stuff,and some "snobs" who started in on the whole "if you invest the money now ,you can get stuff that will last forever" and "you get what you pay for" speech. While all of what they said is certainly true and I cant argue with it or say that it was terrible advice,I looked at it a little differently. I put about 150 in,to get the capability to reload 45 ACP (I bought alot more dies later) and to cast .452 (for 45 acp) bullets. When I started I had no idea what I needed or what I didnt need. If I would have bought expensive gear,I could easily have spent 5 times as much,and still got stuff that does not fit my needs. The only difference would be,I would have 5 times the money in it,and have very high quality stuff that would not fit my needs,which I would have to sell,at a considerable loss to replace with stuff that DID fit my needs. With the Lee stuff,most of it is pretty damn good. (as they put it in Modern Reloading ,the Lee reloading manual,its low cost and good enough (and has a pretty decent warranty,for something in its price range)

    As I get more skilled at reloading,I will find things I want my equipment to do,and see things that I will recognize as being able to do the job better than things that came in the Lee kit. (The dies seem just fine so I don't see replacing them unless they wear out) When I find such things,I wont have to worry about the money I have into the Lee gear,I can throw it in the closet as a backup,sell it off here or on ebay,or just give it away. I have so little money into it,its no big deal.

 Thats my general advice on starting any new hobby. If the lowest cost stuff is 5 or 10 times cheaper than the more expensive stuff,then buy the cheapest stuff to start with. (I did that when I started fishing too. I threw the original stuff from Walmart in the garage in less than a month and never use it,but I have 30 dollars into it. The replacement equipment cost me nearly 150,its far far better,but I didnt even know what I wanted or needed to start with because I knew nothing about fishing)

 In summary,my opinion is,its damn cheap and gets the job done. If you don't know what you want,and don't know if you want Lee or the more expensive stuff,get the Lee. Even if you decide you really DO want the more expensive dies,sell the Lee,you should be able to get 15 or 20 bucks for them,and you probably will have paid 30 or so,and then buy the good ones. You will be down 10 or 15 dollars,but have gotten the use out of the dies,and know what YOU think makes a good die and a bad die and be able to make an informed choice.

 You may want to order a 303 british expander. Most dies sets assume your going to be reloading 7.62x54R with .308 bullets. (I plan on ordering a custom collet die set for mine,it resizes the neck only for good life and best accuracy,but that's a whole other story) Most mosin bores are closer to 311. You will want to slug your bore to find out for sure. There are instructions all over the place. Just remember,use a piece of 00 lead (not plated) buckshot,and use a wooden,not brass or steel rod to drive the pellet down the bore,and of course make sure the bore is completely clean first. Im told most 91/30s are around .311 (I have one that is .311,one that is .312 and one that I have not slugged yet). I have also been told that older ones are more likely to be around .310,and that finnish ones are usually .308. Someone people say ALL Finnish ones are .308,but someone else told me that if the barrel was in good shape,they left it alone and those ones will be around .311 or .310.

 As for bullets,if your bore is .311 or .312,then 303 British bullets are good. (thus the 303 expander). If your bore is .310,Hornady makes a bullet they sell as "7.62mm" which might work well. If your bore is .308,then you hit the jackpot. (as we all know,everyone and their brother (as well as their crazy uncle that lives in a cabin,casting his own bullets and waiting for "the end of days",who is probably crazy because he makes sandwiches right next to where he casts those bullets) makes 308 caliber bullets.

Offline mrussel

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Re: 7.62X54R dies
« Reply #5 on: July 27, 2010, 07:17:43 PM »
my lees work just fine the object is to save money why spend more than necessary on a tool?

 I started to save money,and I still like saving money,but then I found out that the stuff you make is better. Whats not to love.

Offline trotterlg

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Re: 7.62X54R dies
« Reply #6 on: July 30, 2010, 09:59:43 AM »
Go for the Lee dies, but beware, they only come with the .308 expander ball, you will need to also order a British 303 expander to properly load the cast bullets.  Factory crimp die works great.  Larry
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Offline jshootr

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Re: 7.62X54R dies
« Reply #7 on: July 31, 2010, 02:24:43 PM »
RCBS

Offline shot1

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Re: 7.62X54R dies
« Reply #8 on: July 31, 2010, 02:55:05 PM »
I use a lot of Lee dies but for the 7.62X54R get the RCBS. They come with two expander balls. One for .308 diameter bullets and one for .311 or .312 diameter. I personally have never seen a rifle in 7.62X54R that would shoot a bullet as small as .308 accurately. All that I have loaded for, and that is a bunch, either need .311 or .312 bullets. Slug your bore to see which one your rifle needs. If the slug comes out .309 to .3105 use .311 bullets if it comes out .3105 to .3115 use .312 bullets. If it is larger than .3115 it will not shoot a jacketed bullet accurately at all.

It has been my finding that the use of a Lee Factory Crimp Die really increases the accuracy of a load with the 7.62X54R so you will want to pick one up.

It has also been my finding that these rifles like heavy bullets. 174 or 180 gr.

The most accurate load that I have found that shoots very well in about any of these rifles is:

50 grs Accurate Arms 4350, CCI 200 primer, Graf/Prvi or Lapua case, for the rifle that needs .311 bullets use the 174 Sierra Match King which is the most accurate or the Sierra 180 gr SP OAL. 3.000 and use the Lee Factory Crimp Die on it.
For rifles that need .312 bullets use the 174 gr Hornady RNSP OAL 2.790

To really make one of the Mosin Nagant bolt actions shoot you need to place a couple of thin metal shims between the stock and the action at the action screws and make sure that the barrel is free floating in forearm. Then take a piece of felt cloth 3 inches long and wide enough to wrap around the barrel twice and oil it down and rap it around the barrel about 2 inches back from where the barrel comes out of the forearm on the muzzle end. This will help line up the barrel in the forearm and will cushion the barrel and allow it to float. This is how the Finn's accuratized their sniper rifles and it really works.


Offline Frank46

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Re: 7.62X54R dies
« Reply #9 on: July 31, 2010, 09:01:33 PM »
I use rcbs dies. You might need a layman "M" die also. Frank

Offline mrussel

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Re: 7.62X54R dies
« Reply #10 on: July 31, 2010, 10:41:08 PM »
I use a lot of Lee dies but for the 7.62X54R get the RCBS. They come with two expander balls. One for .308 diameter bullets and one for .311 or .312 diameter. I personally have never seen a rifle in 7.62X54R that would shoot a bullet as small as .308 accurately. All that I have loaded for, and that is a bunch, either need .311 or .312 bullets. Slug your bore to see which one your rifle needs. If the slug comes out .309 to .3105 use .311 bullets if it comes out .3105 to .3115 use .312 bullets. If it is larger than .3115 it will not shoot a jacketed bullet accurately at all.

It has been my finding that the use of a Lee Factory Crimp Die really increases the accuracy of a load with the 7.62X54R so you will want to pick one up.

It has also been my finding that these rifles like heavy bullets. 174 or 180 gr.

The most accurate load that I have found that shoots very well in about any of these rifles is:

50 grs Accurate Arms 4350, CCI 200 primer, Graf/Prvi or Lapua case, for the rifle that needs .311 bullets use the 174 Sierra Match King which is the most accurate or the Sierra 180 gr SP OAL. 3.000 and use the Lee Factory Crimp Die on it.
For rifles that need .312 bullets use the 174 gr Hornady RNSP OAL 2.790

To really make one of the Mosin Nagant bolt actions shoot you need to place a couple of thin metal shims between the stock and the action at the action screws and make sure that the barrel is free floating in forearm. Then take a piece of felt cloth 3 inches long and wide enough to wrap around the barrel twice and oil it down and rap it around the barrel about 2 inches back from where the barrel comes out of the forearm on the muzzle end. This will help line up the barrel in the forearm and will cushion the barrel and allow it to float. This is how the Finn's accuratized their sniper rifles and it really works.



 The 311 expander costs something like 5 dollars. Even after ordering one,the Lee dies are still WAY cheaper than the RCBS. Im not knocking the RCBS dies,I haven't used them,but I hear they are excellent products. Still,the Lee dies are good too,and very low cost.

Offline shot1

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Re: 7.62X54R dies
« Reply #11 on: August 01, 2010, 03:50:49 AM »
Shipping will cost you as much or more as the expander part from Lee. But with the proper expander rod they will do a good job. If you can get everything at one time, especially the Factory Crimp Die and the proper expander you will save $$$.

Offline budman46

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Re: 7.62X54R dies
« Reply #12 on: August 01, 2010, 07:30:41 AM »
patw

two m-44's, a 91/30, and a finn m-39 all do well with the standard lee die set; my shooter m-44 has a .308" bore...the 91/30 and the m-39 are.311".

one of the best purchases i've made for my milsurp cast bullet work is lee's universal expander die; flares everything from .22 to .50 for less than one m-die from lyman.

fwiw, lee's .30 cal, 160gr tl gas-checked design, sized .311", lubed with liquid alox is my favorite for all .30 caliber milsurps...7.7 jap, mosins, french, british, argie, swiss and ishapore...feeds perfectly with minute-of-milk-jug accuracy @100 yds, offhand, over 17 gr of alliant 2400. no leading and chrono's 1800 fps.

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Offline patw

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Re: 7.62X54R dies
« Reply #13 on: August 01, 2010, 08:15:37 AM »
My barrel slugged out at .312.  I was making an order to replace a gamecam that got stolen, and I had to order from Cabela's to use my credit card points. Cabela's selection of 7.62x54 dies is limited, I ordered the Lee dies.  I will see how it goes, hopefully with the Lee universal expanding die I will be able to load it ok with the cast bullets.  Otherwise, I will have to get the correct expander ball.  I don't plan on shooting jacketed bullets in it.
I have a Lyman 311466 mold that spits out 154 gr. bullets at .314 diameter, so I will try that first.  

Offline trotterlg

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Re: 7.62X54R dies
« Reply #14 on: August 03, 2010, 12:54:15 PM »
When you load the .312 bullets into the .308 sized case you will get a big buldge on one side of the neck.  Larry
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Offline cheatermk3

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Re: 7.62X54R dies
« Reply #15 on: August 14, 2010, 12:05:34 PM »
My Finn slugged at 312, shoots russian hardball about 3 MOA.  It really shines using Montana bullets' 200gn gascheck sized 314.  I bought a custom die set from Lee because I wanted to get as much life as possible out of my brass using their colletneck die which is not yet available for the 762x54r.  While waiting for it I found that all I needed to do for good accuracy is to seat the gaschecked bullet into the as-fired case(reprimed and cleaned) by hand and then crimp with the factory crimp die.  No re-sizing necessary ..I'm using about 19 grains of Accurate 5744 and getting 5-inch groups at 200yds.  This is good enough to be competitive in our local as-issued military rifle cast bullet matches.

This load is "in the x-ring" at 200 using the 5 line on the tangent sight with a six-o'clock hold.

Offline Nobade

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Re: 7.62X54R dies
« Reply #16 on: August 18, 2010, 03:06:59 AM »
I have been using a 32 H&R mag carbide sizer to neck size the cases, universal decap die to decap them, and the Lee seater to seat bullets. The seater was too small inside and tore up the bullets, so I had to open it up. The die is hard, so had to use a carbide tipped reamer to cut it. The Lee sizer sized the necks down way too much, and should be opened up as well if you wanted to use it. Since I went to neck sizing with the pistol die I didn't worry about that. Load is the SAECO #305 as cast at .313" over 2.8cc IMR7383, IMR4350, WXR, or any other slow powder in that range plus 1.3cc cream 'o' wheat. No gas check, tumble lubed bullet. Around 2 MOA accuracy, plenty good to hit the highpower silhouettes out to 500M. Haven't tried it any further, I don't have any longer distance targets.
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